The Haskins Threat

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

I would be interested how they use fun with numbers to come up with that as he is on the bottom or close to it in most all statistical categories.

In his 5 starts he has completed 55% of his passes, been sacked 22 times and averages 137 net passing yards a game and PFF claims that grades out as average? You can't be serious, utter nonsense.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb/2019

DVOA and DYAR aren't the be all end all but I really like them because they account for more factors than most metrics and are 100% empirical.

AND both are adjusted for opponent.

They do not have a subjective component like QBR.

Haskins is dead last in both in DYAR by a huge margin and tied for last in DVOA with Josh Rosen.

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[punch it in]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/qb/2019

DVOA and DYAR aren't the be all end all but I really like them because they account for more factors than most metrics and are 100% empirical.

AND both are adjusted for opponent.

They do not have a subjective component like QBR.

Haskins is dead last in both in DYAR by a huge margin and tied for last in DVOA with Josh Rosen.

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This is pretty freakin awful. There are some terrible quarterbacks ranked ahead of him.
I don’t understand what it all means like you guys, but it appears he is not only dead last but dead last by a country mile.

[SunnySide]

Josh Allen is the closest comparable I can think of.

I have only watched a few of his games last year and this year but it seems like last year but they both:

- have a live arm
- a tad slow on the quick timing routes
- inconsistent accuracy
- stands well in the pocket
- progressions, can work through them but slow, needs time
- willing to scramble (bigger part of Allens game but Haskins has run much more than we thought)

This year Allen is playing better, more accurate on medium routes, more decisive on short quick hits, better situational awareness

I hope Haskins can take the next step like Allen did this year but credit to Bills for taking a smart approach.

[skinsfaninok]

PFF Is real big on the analytics of course, I'm actually more of the old school football and don't always agree with everything we put out there, for instance saying Duck Hodges is better than Josh Allen... I disagree but overall its a cool place to contribute too and I've met and been trained by some awesome coaches/players.

[DYoungJelly]

I'm a huge fan of the metrics at FootballOutsiders but they have flaws also.

I emailed them either last season or the season before asking for more details on what is and isn't measured in their Oline adjusted line yards metric.

The purpose of the email was to see if all the blown blocks by our TE unit was attributed to the terrible ranking of the Oline in the run game.

They emailed back and said it's all numbers, no subjectivity and that the units weren't distinguished.

So, in theory we may have had a much better Oline in the running game than that metric indicated. We might have been brought down by the TE group and Fat Rob hitting the wrong hole, but every other team was measured the exact same way.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

I'm a huge fan of the metrics at FootballOutsiders but they have flaws also.

I emailed them either last season or the season before asking for more details on what is and isn't measured in their Oline adjusted line yards metric.

The purpose of the email was to see if all the blown blocks by our TE unit was attributed to the terrible ranking of the Oline in the run game.

They emailed back and said it's all numbers, no subjectivity and that the units weren't distinguished.

So, in theory we may have had a much better Oline in the running game than that metric indicated. We might have been brought down by the TE group and Fat Rob hitting the wrong hole, but every other team was measured the exact same way.

Football outsiders Oline metric is good with the overall unit on run game, but their pass protection measure is horseshit.

But agree with on qb calling wrong protection and also as Cooley and Sheehan have kinda pointed out, does the graders at PFF understand proper assignments of olinemen, defensive secondary and Linebackers?

It’s not a perfect science...but I think PFF is getting better at what they do.

I think the biggest thing we have to remember with players, performance...man, the coaching scheme matters a lot. Also, naturally talented athletes and players can lift an entire unit because opposing coaches have to over compensate minimize the impact of the higher talented player.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Football outsiders Oline metric is good with the overall unit on run game, but their pass protection measure is horseshit.

But agree with on qb calling wrong protection and also as Cooley and Sheehan have kinda pointed out, does the graders at PFF understand proper assignments of olinemen, defensive secondary and Linebackers?

It’s not a perfect science...but I think PFF is getting better at what they do.

I think the biggest thing we have to remember with players, performance...man, the coaching scheme matters a lot. Also, naturally talented athletes and players can lift an entire unit because opposing coaches have to over compensate minimize the impact of the higher talented player.

This part is a yes, all overages / schemes are charted every game.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

This part is a yes, all overages / schemes are charted every game.

Cool, it’s important.

My biggest want from PFF would be more data to support the overall grade. As an Example, they should chart items for defense such as: missed tackle/opportunity to tackle..like a tackling percentage, blown coverage responsibly in the secondary, number of times defenders get hands on ball, etc.

Offense I would like more numbers like yards after contact, tackles broken, completion percentage by pass catchers, completion percentages broken down by air yards for qb, etc. olinemen: missed blocks, key block responsibility which lead to loss of yards and key block responsibility which lead to breaking a big play.

Also, penalties responsibility by each player and total yards cost.

Make it happen...

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Cool, it’s important.

My biggest want from PFF would be more data to support the overall grade. As an Example, they should chart items for defense such as: missed tackle/opportunity to tackle..like a tackling percentage, blown coverage responsibly in the secondary, number of times defenders get hands on ball, etc.

Offense I would like more numbers like yards after contact, tackles broken, completion percentage by pass catchers, completion percentages broken down by air yards for qb, etc. olinemen: missed blocks, key block responsibility which lead to loss of yards and key block responsibility which lead to breaking a big play.

Also, penalties responsibility by each player and total yards cost.

Make it happen...

Me too my man haha, It's in the works

[punch it in]

His qbr and rating on espn - which i dont understand either- are the worst in the game and it isn’t even close. I do understand that can’t be good at all. Unless they model their scores after golf.

[sdskinsfan2001]

Originally Posted by punch it in

His qbr and rating on espn - which i dont understand either- are the worst in the game and it isn’t even close. I do understand that can’t be good at all. Unless they model their scores after golf.

Now that's the positive thinking I like to see Lloyd Christmas. So you're telling me there's a chance he's actually awesome?

[Buffalo Bob]

Originally Posted by punch it in

His qbr and rating on espn - which i dont understand either- are the worst in the game and it isn’t even close. I do understand that can’t be good at all. Unless they model their scores after golf.

I think QBR is nothing but fun with numbers, it never made a lot of sense to me and I think the formula is a big secret.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Buffalo Bob

I think QBR is nothing but fun with numbers, it never made a lot of sense to me and I think the formula is a big secret.

I know but when you take a look at the leaders and than the guys down near Haskins it seems fairly in tune with reality

[Coff]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I know but when you take a look at the leaders and than the guys down near Haskins it seems fairly in tune with reality

Very true. However, his QBR has been doubling almost every game. There’s a very clear trajectory that also seems in tune with reality. Every game he plays seems to be better than the one before.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Coff

Very true. However, his QBR has been doubling almost every game. There’s a very clear trajectory that also seems in tune with reality. Every game he plays seems to be better than the one before.

Until yesterday that trajectory was so slow based on the eye test it was almost stagnant. Maybe even went backwards at times. Hopefully we see more of yesterday these last couple weeks and I can exhale going into the offseason knowing quarterback is not a need.