Trayvon Martin Case

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

Stand your ground, in essence.

The opposite. You can't confront someone who is following you. Get to somewhere safe, call the cops, let them deal with it.

Once someone makes it a physical altercation, all bets are off.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

The opposite. You can't confront someone who is following you. Get to somewhere safe, call the cops, let them deal with it.

Once someone makes it a physical altercation, all bets are off.

are you talking about zimmerman or martin? i am assuming your are kidding and not seriously implying that martin is at fault for not having "gone somewhere safe, call the cops, let them deal with it"... yet the same set of rules wouldnt apply to zimmerman.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

are you talking about zimmerman or martin? i am assuming your are kidding and not seriously implying that martin is at fault for not having "gone somewhere safe, call the cops, let them deal with it"... yet the same set of rules wouldnt apply to zimmerman.

That was a general recommendation: Don't try to confront a pursuer/harasser, you're playing into their hands if they want an altercation.

My take on it is Martin resented Zimmerman following him and thought it would be a good idea to confront him.

[firstdown]

Why is it assumed Zimmerman want a cofrontation? From his past reporting it seems he was more a person who was reporter of these people and not someone who wanted a cofrontation. Seems from Martins own GF he was the one that doubled back around and cofronted Zimmerman.

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Why is it assumed Zimmerman want a cofrontation? From his past reporting it seems he was more a person who was reporter of these people and not someone who wanted a cofrontation. Seems from Martins own GF he was the one that doubled back around and cofronted Zimmerman.

id like to know the exact routes each took as well and exactly what zimmerman did from the time he left his truck to the fight.

i read the article linked by someone were it tries to re-patch zimmerman and martin's foot steps but .... it was highly bias towards zimmerman with huge leaps in logic and fact twisting.

to answer you question FD - if guess bc of zimmerman's confrontational words used on the dispatch call as well as the dispathcer telling him to not follow martin.

plus he did get out of his truck which is more than "observe and report" and seemingly followed martin - now im sure the counter argument to that would be that he had to get out of his truck to further "observe" martin bc he went on a foot path where zimmerman couldnt visually follow him in his truck ..

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

id like to know the exact routes each took as well and exactly what zimmerman did from the time he left his truck to the fight.

i read the article linked by someone were it tries to re-patch zimmerman and martin's foot steps but .... it was highly bias towards zimmerman with huge leaps in logic and fact twisting.

to answer you question FD - if guess bc of zimmerman's confrontational words used on the dispatch call as well as the dispathcer telling him to not follow martin.

plus he did get out of his truck which is more than "observe and report" and seemingly followed martin - now im sure the counter argument to that would be that he had to get out of his truck to further "observe" martin bc he went on a foot path where zimmerman couldnt visually follow him in his truck ..

This is one thing that drives me nuts. What makes you think that Zimmerman did NOT heed the 911 dispatchers advice to stop following Martin? To me, it clearly sounds like Zimmerman stops following Martin once the dispatcher suggested he shouldn't.

OTM - lets suppose the facts were:

1) Zimmerman reported a suspicious person to 911; 2) Zimmerman followed and even initially ran after said suspicious person once the person starting running; 3) Stopped following the person perhaps because of a 911 operators non-legally bonding recommendation; 4) Was attacked from behind by someone that was likely the same suspicious person from 1-2 minutes earlier; 5) Was reasonably fearful of life or significant bodily injury during attack; 6) Shot assailant because of fear

Would you still think Zimmerman was guilty of murder? If not, what would have to change for you to find Zimmerman guilty?

Also what confrontational words did Zimmerman use to the 911 operator?

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

This is one thing that drives me nuts. What makes you think that Zimmerman did NOT heed the 911 dispatchers advice to stop following Martin? To me, it clearly sounds like Zimmerman stops following Martin once the dispatcher suggested he shouldn't.

OTM - lets suppose the facts were:

1) Zimmerman reported a suspicious person to 911; 2) Zimmerman followed and even initially ran after said suspicious person once the person starting running; 3) Stopped following the person perhaps because of a 911 operators non-legally bonding recommendation; 4) Was attacked from behind by someone that was likely the same suspicious person from 1-2 minutes earlier; 5) Was reasonably fearful of life or significant bodily injury during attack; 6) Shot assailant because of fear

Would you still think Zimmerman was guilty of murder? If not, what would have to change for you to find Zimmerman guilty?

Also what confrontational words did Zimmerman use to the 911 operator?

1) I never said Zimmerman didnt stop following Martin once he asked not to. If he did or didnt, we dont know.

2) zimmerman said Martin was running to the back entrance .. I assume this means away from Zimmerman

3) why do you assume zimmerman stopped running after martin?

4) there is no evidence to support Martin attacked zimmerman from behind. The girl's testimony who was talking to martin at the time said she heard another voice say "what are you doing here"or something along those lines ...... also zimmerman in his own video re-enactment never said he was ambushed or blind sided. Zimmerman said they were face to face.

not sure why or where this "attacked from behind" thing came from. 100% not true fro everything ive seen.

5) just because you are getting punched in the face doesnt mean you get to kill someone.

6) maybe manslaughter 1 or 2 if that is available.

I understand i apparently have a different opinion on this case than most others .. i refuse to accept the fact that you can shoot someone bc they are winning a fist fight.

what ever the jury does, i am fine with it.

George Zimmerman's 911 call transcribed - National unsolved cases | Examiner.com

[over the mountain]

read the dispatch transcript then watch zimmerman's re-enactment video.

zimmerman makes so many false or misleading statements in the re-enactment video

he says the dispathcer told zimmerman to get to somewhere where he could see where martin went = false

he sd he told the dispatcher martin was circling his car = false

he sd he had to get out of his truck to look for a street sign = really? thats the reason why you got out of your truck in you gated community? because you didnt know where you were in a neighborhood you citizen patrol? so you didnt get out of your truck to perhaps ... i dont know ... follow or confront this suspicious character?

George Zimmerman Re-enactment (Full Video) - YouTube

i had to stop watching the reenactmetn video but ive seen it before ... imo he is guilty and is either out-right lying or at least severely minimizing his actions.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

read the dispatch transcript then watch zimmerman's re-enactment video.

zimmerman makes so many false or misleading statements in the re-enactment video

he says the dispathcer told zimmerman to get to somewhere where he could see where martin went = false

he sd he told the dispatcher martin was circling his car = false

he sd he had to get out of his truck to look for a street sign = really? thats the reason why you got out of your truck in you gated community? because you didnt know where you were in a neighborhood you citizen patrol? so you didnt get out of your truck to perhaps ... i dont know ... follow or confront this suspicious character?

George Zimmerman Re-enactment (Full Video) - YouTube

i had to stop watching the reenactmetn video but ive seen it before ... imo he is guilty and is either out-right lying or at least severely minimizing his actions.

Ill try and check this out.

With regards to your first post, im just trying to figure out what would it take for you to not think Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. In your opinion once Zimmerman started following Martin, does that in your opinion place responsibility on Zimmerman regardless if he stopped and turned around?

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Ill try and check this out.

With regards to your first post, im just trying to figure out what would it take for you to not think Zimmerman is guilty of murder or manslaughter. In your opinion once Zimmerman started following Martin, does that in your opinion place responsibility on Zimmerman regardless if he stopped and turned around?

He started a confrontation with a stranger, that puts his behavior outside the norm. Gentlemen, have any of you read the interview Z gave the cops 2 days later? Apparently Z said he followed the punk to get an address. Evidently he knew Martin was headed somewhere in the complex. He did not think it was a break in artist.

[RedskinRat]

Is anyone else surprised at how inept the Prosecution is?

JR? You'd have done a better job, right?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Is anyone else surprised at how inept the Prosecution is?

JR? You'd have done a better job, right?

I am becoming convinced this is all a show. The public outrage over this case was so quick and powerful I think it may have forced local law enforcement to push through a trial when they had a weak case. I'm not so sure this even goes to trial in a vacuum (simply based on the available evidence).

Don't confuse that with me thinking he is innocent. I strongly believe he bears a mountain load of the responsibility for the entire situation. I am not presently convinced he has been proven legally guilty of anything though. Which is unfortunate because I think he is probably guilty.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I am becoming convinced this is all a show. The public outrage over this case was so quick and powerful I think it may have forced local law enforcement to push through a trial when they had a weak case. I'm not so sure this even goes to trial in a vacuum (simply based on the available evidence).

Don't confuse that with me thinking he is innocent. I strongly believe he bears a mountain load of the responsibility for the entire situation. I am not presently convinced he has been proven legally guilty of anything though. Which is unfortunate because I think he is probably guilty.

I agree with this 100%.

My personal speculative belief is that Z aggressively confronted TM and a pushing and shoving match ensued which escalated into a beat down by Martin.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

My personal speculative belief is that Z aggressively confronted TM and a pushing and shoving match ensued which escalated into a beat down by Martin.

I believe from what we know so far that Martin didn't like the creepy looking cracker following him, was emboldened by a sense of outrage and weed, and confronted Zimmerman. He physically attacked Zimmerman and then Zimmerman overreacted and used his firearm.

Whatever the verdict it's a useful example of why we need to institute Lombroso Centers to identify and neuter the intrinsically violent.

Yes, I'll volunteer myself first, if it helps.

[Gary84Clark]

Outrage and weed. Smoking weed is not known to encourage aggression.