Should Mike Shanahan be fired?

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You want to know why he won 11 games without Brady? You do realize that team went 16-0 the year before and played in the Super Bowl. Did you expect that team drop off that much due to Brady alone? Nope. (also a clear sign that Manning was more important to his team than Brady)


Then explain to me Belichick's .450 winning percentage in Cleveland? Oh wait....YOU CANT.


You guys are a joke. You really are. You pumped up all these other coaches and yet these coaches have HoF QBs. You don't give Mike credit for shit, and when he does win, you turn around and say it's because of the QB.

Well guess ****ing what. Walsh, Belichick and ANY other coach out there winning super bowls and winning consistently has done so with a star at QB. SO either give Mike his due, or don't give anybody else theirs. If he's a bad coach, then so are the rest of the guys I've mentioned.

I dont give a shit about what he did 15 years ago dude! I know BB won not just because of Brady. Cus he built a great ****ing team! I just said that! You take rg-3 away and were 0-7. Your proving my point for me now. I give all the credit in the world for winning two superbowls 15 years ago. Never said i didnt. Im concerned about what he is doing here. Losing! Losing without a great qb and losing with a great qb. Christ.

Edit: BB took that shit ass Browns team to the playoffs one of those four years. 11 wins. Now im really leaving. You may have the final word. I have said my peace.
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[NC_Skins]

I have no problem with people criticizing Mike. He's made several mistakes, and I'm sure he'll make more during his tenure. However, it's disheartening to see fans hate on the man just to hate on him. When the man is starting to get blamed for INTs and fumbles, that's simply hating just to hate. Have some legit gripes.


1) McNabb trade and Jamal Brown trade
2) Lack of discipline with penalty's and coaching staff (son)
3) Exposing QB to unnecessary hits
4) Not getting a good DC to run the 3-4
5) Questionable personnel moves?
...

Sometimes I feel as if the guy came into your house and kicked your dog. Some of you fans want to give him no credit for his SBs in Denver, and want to give him no credit for our offense doing a complete turnaround.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I dont give a shit about what he did 15 years ago dude! I know BB won not just because of Brady. Cus he built a great ****ing team! I just said that! You take rg-3 away and were 0-7. Your proving my point for me now. I give all the credit in the world for winning two superbowls 15 years ago. Never said i didnt. Im concerned about what he is doing here. Losing! Losing without a great qb and losing with a great qb. Christ.

Edit: BB took that shit ass Browns team to the playoffs one of those four years. 11 wins. Now im really leaving. You may have the final word. I have said my peace.
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I look at it as we're losing with a bad D. Not sure how we can ask for much more at this point from RG3. He's holding up his end of the bargain.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I have no problem with people criticizing Mike. He's made several mistakes, and I'm sure he'll make more during his tenure. However, it's disheartening to see fans hate on the man just to hate on him. When the man is starting to get blamed for INTs and fumbles, that's simply hating just to hate. Have some legit gripes.


1) McNabb trade and Jamal Brown trade
2) Lack of discipline with penalty's and coaching staff (son)
3) Exposing QB to unnecessary hits
4) Not getting a good DC to run the 3-4
5) Questionable personnel moves?
...

Sometimes I feel as if the guy came into your house and kicked your dog. Some of you fans want to give him no credit for his SBs in Denver, and want to give him no credit for our offense doing a complete turnaround.

Everytime i try to leave - they pull me back in. Lol. Only to say this though. Elway was a shell of himself when Shanny won two. I have never said he won because of Elway. If you say that you are too young to remember It. You see the owner saying " this ones fir John!" You see him sneaking into the endzone. Elway was at the end of his career literally. I do not blame Shanny for fumbles or dropped passes. - that is stupid. He has not had real sustained success at any point over the last 15 years. I love the offense. I love the run game. I hate losing. I hate excuses. I hate holding my breath. Its uncomfortable. I hope to hell Shanny puts together a run like he did in the late 1990's for the Redskins. I truly truly do.


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[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

I dont give a shit about what he did 15 years ago dude! I know BB won not just because of Brady. Cus he built a great ****ing team! I just said that! You take rg-3 away and were 0-7. Your proving my point for me now. I give all the credit in the world for winning two superbowls 15 years ago. Never said i didnt. Im concerned about what he is doing here. Losing! Losing without a great qb and losing with a great qb. Christ.


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We didn't go 0-7 with Rex and Beck so not buying it bro. RGIII is valuable, but many of you are acting as he's doing this all by himself.

Is he also blocking for Morris? Blocking for himself? How about the YAC from his receivers? He kicking FGs (or missing them?) How's RGIII's punts look?

While he's definitely the most valuable person on the team, I think you are putting too much into him.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I look at it as we're losing with a bad D. Not sure how we can ask for much more at this point from RG3. He's holding up his end of the bargain.

He sure as hell is Matty. He is aces up and down in my book. Kid is money - smart- a good kid - all the tools. He will win championships with the Redskins. I dont care who the hell his coach is to tell you the truth. He is special as all hell.


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[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Or maybe your point is a little foggy. I didn't see you mention the D at all, just going on and on about RG3.

He's great no doubt, but he can't do it alone.

Aren't you on the side of the arguement that gives examples of the Giants, packers and the Patriots as reasons why defense is not necessarily all that important? Maybe not you who quoted it, but many people have given those examples as why we could still win. Even though we are not, and now its due to not getting any help from the Defense. Correct me if I am wrong, but this defense is almost ALL Shanahans men, over 3 years worth of his men, and its now last in the league. I doubt that even changing the coordinator is going to be of much help, so again, since defense is now very necessary to win and a very important cog (excuse), we are again 3 years away from fixing THIS problem.

Point I am making is that if Shanahan was to come in here and team build, he has absolutely neglected the other side of the ball. We are now again 3 years away from fielding a team decent enough to be considered a contender due to the absolutely horrid play of our team on that side of the ball. With this logic, very often applied during these types of "Shanahan, Haslett, To fire or not to Fire" discussions, once we fix one side, the other side will be old, ineffective and abysmal, and we are right back to square one. Being just a couple years away. Its a football team, and if a coach is worth his weight in whatever, he gets his players to perform or he doesn't. They all have the same cap, the same draft picks, and the same rules. Its the coaches that are different, and this coach can not keep up, and we will NEVER be a serious contender for anything as long as Mike Shanahan is here at the helm. Again, just my opinion, but I think its fairly valid to say a coach who hasn't done squat in the league as far as playoffs and sustained success is concerned other than the times he has a uber elite QB behind center just cannot get it done without that Uber talent. He has proven it time and time again, we were just so desperate to get rid of zorn that we all figured he would be an upgrade. Sure Seems like he isn't. I haven't seen much of anything different other than our youth and QB, still losing, but now with the worst defense in the league and a patchwork OLine that is overachieving due to a ultra mobile QB. And this whole thing about the mood and pride at Redskins park has changed in the last 3 years, ok.

I'll take winning over a positive attitude anyday, thanks. Until that happy sunshiny feeling translates into sustained success on the field, call me a non believer in anything Shanahan is selling.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by punch it in

He sure as hell is Matty. He is aces up and down in my book. Kid is money - smart- a good kid - all the tools. He will win championships with the Redskins. I dont care who the hell his coach is to tell you the truth. He is special as all hell.

It's way too early to start crowing him a champion. Panther fans said the same thing as you are. Now, they are blaming everybody under the sun, and many pointing the fingers at Cam.


I've said numerous times, years 2 and 3 are going to be more important than this first year. Right now, I don't think we are running our conventional offense and have tailored it to his skills. This is the same thing that Chudzinski did with Cam in Carolina. Now, they are taking the training wheels off and finding out he's not so great at running the conventional offense. Not only that, defenses are now more prepared to face that read option they were doing and were shutting that down as well. Cam was a hero last year, now seems Chud is becoming a goat.

The two things that will separate a QB like RGIII and Cam is, maturity and intelligence. This is why I think RGIII will overcome and be a big time player for a while. That said, still to early to crown him.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

It's way too early to start crowing him a champion. Panther fans said the same thing as you are. Now, they are blaming everybody under the sun, and many pointing the fingers at Cam.


I've said numerous times, years 2 and 3 are going to be more important than this first year. Right now, I don't think we are running our conventional offense and have tailored it to his skills. This is the same thing that Chudzinski did with Cam in Carolina. Now, they are taking the training wheels off and finding out he's not so great at running the conventional offense. Not only that, defenses are now more prepared to face that read option they were doing and were shutting that down as well. Cam was a hero last year, now seems Chud is becoming a goat.

The two things that will separate a QB like RGIII and Cam is, maturity and intelligence. This is why I think RGIII will overcome and be a big time player for a while. That said, still to early to crown him.

Wonderful point. After seeing Cam Newton do what he did last year, I am completely baffled as to why he isn't doing ANYTHING this year. Maybe the fact that the gimmicky college style offense takes a half a season or a little more for teams to scheme for, and once the playing field is leveled on a scheme basis, that advantage is very much diminished. I too think Shanny will be here next year. I do not think we will sniff 8-8 this year, but if he does stay, next year will truly be a test for this regime. Because we will see if he can adjust to defenses adjusting from being able to look at 16 games of tape on our looks and formations, shifts, playcalling tendencies, etc........ I do believe it will be a defining season, whether I am completely wrong and RG3 has ridiculous success next year, because the coaching can plan for the "plans" and adjust, or if he is relying on RG3, runs the same Baylor looks and spreads, and RG3 struggles like Newton this year. If anyone can avoid a sophmore slump, I do believe I have a little, no, ALOT more faith in our guy than Fig Newton. Kyle will definitely have his work cut out for him during this offseason. I am cautiously optimistic, if only for the fact the Griffin looks like Christ with a pigskin, turning water into gatorade and such............

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

It's way too early to start crowing him a champion. Panther fans said the same thing as you are. Now, they are blaming everybody under the sun, and many pointing the fingers at Cam.


I've said numerous times, years 2 and 3 are going to be more important than this first year. Right now, I don't think we are running our conventional offense and have tailored it to his skills. This is the same thing that Chudzinski did with Cam in Carolina. Now, they are taking the training wheels off and finding out he's not so great at running the conventional offense. Not only that, defenses are now more prepared to face that read option they were doing and were shutting that down as well. Cam was a hero last year, now seems Chud is becoming a goat.

The two things that will separate a QB like RGIII and Cam is, maturity and intelligence. This is why I think RGIII will overcome and be a big time player for a while. That said, still to early to crown him.

Cam is a quitter. You will never see RG -3 sulking on tge sidelines or making excuses. He is mature beyond his years. Takes character and skill to win a championship. He has both. I guess its up to your boy Shanny to put a defense/ DC in place to make RG-3 and this offense's success equal wins. I think that what he has shown so far after 8 games and the knowledge that his character bodes well as far as continuing to learn along with his obvious desire to win equal the markings of a young champion. I stand by my statement. He will win a championship with the Redskins. Is it a guess - an opinion. Obviously. Is it an educated one based on legit skill and legit leadership - aka - the tangibles and intangibles it takes to be a champion - yes sir it is.


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[skinsfaninok]

Isn't Mike an offensive coach?? Hmm

[Bucket]

I think Punch it in would commit suicide if RG3 turned out to be Vince Young II

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Zorn.

And that worked just swell.

Zorn 2008 8-8 (PA) D-6 (PS) O-28
Zorn 2009 4-12 (PA) D-18 (PS) O-26
Shanahan 2010 6-10 (PA) D-21 (PS) O-25
Shanahan 2011 5-11 (PA) D-21 (PS) O-26

According to our friend Skinsfanok, "Stats don't lie."

I don't always go by stats myself as I think there are variables to consider such as Zorn wasn't going through a defensive scheme change like Shanahan. In fact I'm not sure Zorn had any imput with the defense whatsoever. On the other side...Shanny handpicked his DC and scheme and has more power in his position than Zorn ever dreamed of.
Now...I am very happy with the fact that we have RG3..we actually have drafted oline since Mike has been here...the oline is playing well..we're an exciting team scoring points..we have finally become a young team...I expect our FA receivers to do very well...we have a running game with a fine young rookie...love the LB's we've drafted. Love alot of things Mike has done for this team. I voted to wait until the end of the year and decide...but if he doesn't hire a DC that can turn this defense into an asset instead of a liability and leav"e the guy alone to do his thing then I'm ready for someone else to takeover this team.

[53Fan]

Just one more thing and I'll try to leave it alone. When we talk of how Mike has brought in good young talent and turned this roster around who are we comparing him to.....Vinny? I think most coaches would have done the same thing now that Allen is here and it's actually possible. Coach the offense...get a good DC and let him do his thing Mike. Let's win some games baby!

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Bucket

I think Punch it in would commit suicide if RG3 turned out to be Vince Young II

Maybe I will be the president of his fan club one day.

Edit: if i was ever going to commit suicide over football related matters it would have been sometime during the John Beck era. My brain was telling me to stop watching but my eyes werent listening and so than my brain was telling me to stick hot pokers in my eyes , which probably would have looked like a suicide even though it was just a desperation move to never have to see john beck play again. But Than Rex came back and i just threw up in my mouth alot and beat my skull with blunt objects.
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