Jesus Camp:

[Daseal]

Woah, I really didn't mean to start this. All I wanted to say here is that while religion can be a profound and inspiring presence in someones life, it can also be taken to the point where it's scary, which can be seen in this movie. It makes you open your eyes and see how the "American Taliban" as someone I know coined it is being equipped for war and it's scary.

My main qualm with religion is the missionary part of it. I hate walking down the street having some fanatic tell me I'm going to burn in hell if I don't repent now. I go out of my way to make said peoples lives miserable. Even when people I know or aren't being fervent about attacking me, I get quite upset if they keep on once I say I'm not interested.

I have been to many types of churches, some for an amazing religion class I took, some through friends, some through curiosity. When I went to the Buddhist temple in Catlett (who'd a thunk a Buddhist temple in Catlett) I was shocked at how kind and accepting everyone was. I came in extremely ignorant of any of the tradition or anything of the sort. Their teachings are simple and easy to follow, the people were the kindest and most generous I'd ever met. I showed up during a festival where offerings were to be given, and people around me gladly gave me offerings to give to the monks so as to feel at home. This group is extremely open to people coming to see how they go, and I recommend going. The temple is gorgeous and very tranquil regardless of your religion. A huge pond with what seems like classic Chinesse architecture (to my untrained eye).

The other sect I've found that I really enjoyed. They don't really have a special denomination, but all black churches. Just so you know, I'm so white if I fell into a vat of milk no one would be able to rescue me. I'd blend in. However, I've noticed these communities can be extremely religious without being judgmental.

I guess what I'm trying to say here, is religion can be good and bad. In this country many rednecks label all Muslims war mongering terrorists. Which makes me sick, most Muslims are very calm, religious, and moral people. However a small sect of the Muslim community interpret the Koran a different way, just as I feel radical Christians do with the Bible. I suggest, even if you've been Christian all your life to explore the religious world. I'm not saying this to buckle your faith, I'm doing it because I think it's important for us to understand other religions a bit.

And for the record, I'm done with this thread. I didn't want it to turn into a theological debate. The fact is you can only state your position and you won't change anyone else's. I find religion extremely interesting, but also find it hard for me to question certain parts of say, Christianity, without the Christian I'm questioning to get upset if they can't explain it. I'm a curious person by nature and I'm curious as to how you can completely devote yourself to something you've never seen, felt, or have anything except for an ancient book that's not even 1st or 2nd hand stories.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I'm a curious person by nature and I'm curious as to how you can completely devote yourself to something you've never seen, felt, or have anything except for an ancient book that's not even 1st or 2nd hand stories.

Daseal,

I know you said you were done with this thread and I realize it has taken on a life of its own, but I wanted to address this point - just because of your curiosity.

Part of the Christian experience, and I'm certain this is true most other religions, is the fact that, through study of and meditation on the writings of the "ancient book", you can feel and see God - just not with your fingers and eyes. It's as I said in one of my long posts, if you condition your acceptance of the infinite on the abiltiy to prove its existence through finite, tangible experience then it simply can't be done. It's like trying to explain color to a person who has been blind all their life - if they refuse to believe that color exists unless they can prove its existence through their working senses, it just can't be done.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I can appreciate people who strongly believe in their given religions, but I must admit that I too find it annoying when someone tells me that I am going to burn in hell because I am a sinner unless I "bow down" to God. I feel like kicking those people's asses and saying "Okay, if you're going to heavan and I am going to hell, I'm going to kick the crap out of you so at least going to hell will have been worth it."

As I said earlier, I have no problem with religious people and think it can be a very positive influence on many individuals and on society as a whole. I think, however, that the 1% of nutjobs who would have been crazy even without religion give it a bad name.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I feel like kicking those people's asses and saying "Okay, if you're going to heavan and I am going to hell, I'm going to kick the crap out of you so at least going to hell will have been worth it."

My general response to these types - if you're going to heaven, it's probably not a place I want to be.

[SmootSmack]

You know what was a good movie? "Saved"

[JoeRedskin]

And, as for my earlier exigesis on religion and the foundation of my beliefs, I was really trying to point out that it is not "religion" per se that is evil. Also, those religions claiming to have "simple" answers to ageless questions are likely to be less than they purport to be.

[djnemo65]

Coming from a Jewish background I bristle when people assert that Christianity is the one true religion because the clear implication is that my dead relatives are burning in hell. I appreciate it much more when people say that Christianity works for them, but that they respect that other religious faiths - or even having no religion at all - may work equally well for other people.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Coming from a Jewish background I bristle when people assert that Christianity is the one true religion because the clear implication is that my dead relatives are burning in hell. I appreciate it much more when people say that Christianity works for them, but that they respect that other religious faiths - or even having no religion at all - may work equally well for other people.

Jesus was nothing if not a good jew. In my opinion, Christianity doesn't "replace" judaism but rather is a culmination of its teachings. W/o understanding, believing and accepting the old testament teachings, christianity is a religion out of context. That includes (IMHO) the teachings of tolerance and acceptance.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Jesus was nothing if not a good jew. In my opinion, Christianity doesn't "replace" judaism but rather is a culmination of its teachings. W/o understanding, believing and accepting the old testament teachings, christianity is a religion out of context. That includes (IMHO) the teachings of tolerance and acceptance.

I'm not sure what you mean? Christianity is a culmination of Jewish teachings for who? For Christians? Certainly not for Jewish people, who reject the new testament. A culmination is believed to be superior to what came before it (the word literally means to reach the highest point) so if I was a little more fanatical I might find what you just said offensive. I don't think you meant it to be, but culmination was a poor word choice imo. How about Christianity builds off of Jewish teachings while going in a new direction?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

I'm not sure what you mean? Christianity is a culmination of Jewish teachings for who? For Christians? Certainly not for Jewish people, who reject the new testament. A culmination is believed to be superior to what came before it (the word literally means to reach the highest point) so if I was a little more fanatical I might find what you just said offensive. I don't think you meant it to be, but culmination was a poor word choice imo. How about Christianity builds off of Jewish teachings while going in a new direction?

Fair enough - for Christians. And no, it was not meant to be offensive. With that said, it is the Christian belief that Christ was the culmination of the "old covenant" and that, rather than a "new direction", the "new covenant" was a continuation of those same old covenant promises through the Christ's death and resurrection.

Given the underlying tension between the two faiths (The Judaic messiah has yet to come v. The Judaic messiah has come), the Christian and Jewish faiths will always on some level be at odds and each side has to use care in communicating with each other - particularly Christians when speaking of the Jewish faith.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Fair enough - for Christians. And no, it was not meant to be offensive. With that said, it is the Christian belief that Christ was the culmination of the "old covenant" and that, rather than a "new direction", the "new covenant" was a continuation of those same old covenant promises through the Christ's death and resurrection.

Given the underlying tension between the two faiths (The Judaic messiah has yet to come v. The Judaic messiah has come), the Christian and Jewish faiths will always on some level be at odds and each side has to use care in communicating with each other - particularly Christians when speaking of the Jewish faith.

I agree, and I wasn't offended. Thanks for being understanding though.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

In answering the original post about the movie and this group I'm going to dip out of this thread quoting Jesus quoting Isaiah in how I "believe" Jesus would respond to that group and what they are teaching each other and those children. Matthew 15: 7-9

Matthew 15:7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
8 ‘ These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And[e]honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

peace and prayers guys!
Jesus, not just for Sundays Anymore!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Sammy Baugh Fan

In answering the original post about the movie and this group I'm going to dip out of this thread quoting Jesus quoting Isaiah in how I "believe" Jesus would respond to that group and what they are teaching each other and those children. Matthew 15: 7-9



peace and prayers guys!
Jesus, not just for Sundays Anymore!

Nice. Beautiful quote.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Speaking of the whole "one TRUE God" concept, these remarks by Al Sharpton are interesting. Champion of diversity my ass. He sounds more like Muqtada al Sadr

[Hog1]

I read things like that, and I just have to shake my head in disgust.
The "rev" Al, and his type are, who, and what, they are.
His time with his maker is coming..........