Belichick...Best of All Time????

[Redskin Rich]

Sorry Matty... I thought we had hijacked this one... my bad

[MTK]

No problem, this thread is still headed in the right direction so far

[Redskin Rich]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

No problem, this thread is still headed in the right direction so far

OK.. I accept my

[skinsfan_nn]

Belichick....best of all time? I hope that's a joke...? Not EVEN CLOSE to Mr. GIBBS!

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

GTripp,

I don't know how you can elevate guys like Andy Reid above coaches like Joe Gibbs. 4th best coach of ALL TIME? I have all the respect in the world for Reid, but he doesn't hold a candle to Gibbs. To do what Gibbs did with so many different players is simply amazing.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

GTripp,

I don't know how you can elevate guys like Andy Reid above coaches like Joe Gibbs. 4th best coach of ALL TIME? I have all the respect in the world for Reid, but he doesn't hold a candle to Gibbs. To do what Gibbs did with so many different players is simply amazing.

I guess thats where we differ. I think Gibbs does a very good job, to say the least, with player management, keeping his guys happy and all. But isn't that his job?

There are better coaches, past and present than Joe Gibbs. We have enough of a sample on Reid to know that he does the little things like clock managment and delegating.

But as I said before, the effect of coaching on overall performance accross the league is probably at its smallest effect in NFL history, so it's not really that big of a deal.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But as I said before, the effect of coaching on overall performance accross the league is probably at its smallest effect in NFL history, so it's not really that big of a deal.

How can you say that? How can you say what "overall performance" would be without coaching, when every team is led by a coach? The league is full of examples is which coach A leads a team to a horrible record and is fired and coach B comes in and takes basically the same team and produces a winning team.

And I still have no clue how Andy Reid (as good as he is) is put ahead of coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

How can you say that? How can you say what "overall performance" would be without coaching, when every team is led by a coach? The league is full of examples is which coach A leads a team to a horrible record and is fired and coach B comes in and takes basically the same team and produces a winning team.

And I still have no clue how Andy Reid (as good as he is) is put ahead of coaches like Bill Parcells and Joe Gibbs.

An educated guess based on years and years of data.

If coaching was all there is to winning, the leagues's best coach would go 16-0 every season. So we can establish through common sense that coaching accounts for significantly less than the entire outcome of any given game.

SGG, try looking at it this way: How often does a coach lose a game for his team? I mean, how often does a team come back to the locker room and say "we would have won that game (with 100% certainty) with 31 other coaches, but somehow we lost", and be accurate. I doubt this can be said in the last ten years. I reasonably estimate that 98% or more of a coaches in-game decisions would be ones that are complete no brainers, that is to say that every coach in the NFL would make the same call, the right call.

The remaining 2% or the "questionable decisions" are what defines a coach's in game ability. However, if we theoretically assume that coach A will always make the correct questionable decision, and coach B will always make the worst questionable decision, how many wins will coach B cost his team over coach A? Put it this way: if you guessed one per season, I'd argue you are overestimating this effect.

This is why I feel its somewhat pointless to second guess coaching decisions. While his in game performance suggests that he should be fired, coach B would still have won 60 games over the last 5 years if he coached the Colts.

In the current game, Andy Reid and Bill Belichick would be my Coach A prototypes, and I'd say either Herman Edwards or John Fox might have been my type Bs. That part is just my opinion, but Edwards and Fox have both won in this league, no thanks to their in game coaching decisions.

A coaches' offensive/defensive system is another slight variable, but the system is only going to be as good as the men who make it work. Every coach in the league has a system. Having a good system gives a slight advantage, but if you are facing Peyton Manning, you wont remember that advantage at the end of the 60 minutes.

[Newjerseyredskinfan14]

hell no he isnt even close!!!!!!!

[MTK]

Reid?

This thread just went to hell.

[skinsfan_nn]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Reid?

This thread just went to hell.

Matty & SGG, this is the lost thread. How in the world you would with ANY logic rate reid at #4, that's just a JOKE!

GIBBS #1

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan_nn

Matty & SGG, this is the lost thread. How in the world you would with ANY logic rate reid at #4, that's just a JOKE!

GIBBS #1

I think you are confusing the word "logic" with "blatent homerism".

Not that theres anything wrong with that, so long as you realize that its not a serious evaluation of anything.

[GTripp0012]

The biggest coaching blunder of the last ten years was unquestionablly Wade Phillips' refusal to play Doug Flutie over Rob Johnson in Buffalo. This cost the Bills many wins. But hence my qualifier: that the primary defining quality of a head coach is ability to make sure he always has the best 11 guys on the field for the situation. Phillips clearly failed in his responsibility.

Once you have your best players on the field, the rest is semantics and luck.

[KLHJ2]

The Top 3 Coaches ever in this order. Vince Lombardi, John Madden, Joe Gibbs(Before he returned) Hands down bar none. Based on winning percentage regular season, post season, and championchips. I would put Billy somewhere in the top ten.

[irish]

Originally Posted by angryssg

The Top 3 Coaches ever in this order. Vince Lombardi, John Madden, Joe Gibbs(Before he returned) Hands down bar none. Based on winning percentage regular season, post season, and championchips. I would put Billy somewhere in the top ten.

No way are Gibbs & Madden 2 of the top 3 coaches of all time. Gibbs is great and belongs in the top 10. I'm not sure Madden makes the top 10.