Missing Champ Bailey...

skinsfanthru&thru · 07-29-2004, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

LT for champ isn't an awesome trade at all from champ's perspective... and being on a losing team means more change, and less chance to settle down and shine, which in turn, means his next big check wont be so hot.

if that trade was actually possible I would have gone into shock, cuz as much as I like the trade for Portis, LT is by far the most talented rb in the league right now and is only 22 or 23 I think and a trade for him after Gibbs coming back would just be too much for my mind to handle,lol.

That Guy · 07-30-2004, 07:54 AM

yeah, the only way it'd be possible is if we offered our entire secondary or something though

SD has much more pressing needs than one good CB at $65 mill (or whatever it was).

memphisskin · 07-30-2004, 10:49 AM

It's obvious the trade is beneficial to both teams, my hope is that we meet them in the Super Bowl soon and settle it on the field.

As far as the debate about who is the more talented corner, I'd say Ty Law is probably the best just because he always seems to be making plays. That said, I think changing systems every year has severely stunted Champ's growth, and LaVar's as well. It takes time to foster trust and to really understand the point that coaches are trying to make, witness LaVar's statements about Marvin Lewis playing him at end. I can respect Champ wanting to leave the Skins because there's no way he can have the same passion that we fans do about the team because for him it is his real life and career. When Gibbs came back all of us welcomed him with open arms because we believe that Snyder finally has brought us stability. But it's a lot easier to judge from the outside looking in. From Champ's perspective things must look a lot differently, he witnessed a lot of turnover and this last move might seem brilliant to all of us but to him it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. No matter.

In the end, we do lose a great corner but we pick up a darned good one in Springs. And we also get a great back in Portis, so I'll take my chances with CP.

That Guy · 07-30-2004, 11:31 AM

right, people keep trying to figure out who got the better end of the deal, but honestly, I think both teams came out ahead.

champ was NOT going to stay here, so we got a top five running game out of it... something we desperately needed, and something gibbs would hate to be without. Champ was replaced by extensive secondary depth which should counteract his loss.

denver got an improved secondary so its no longer the sad excuse it was... they gave up a big back who was (rightfully) a bit miffed about earning minimum wage... they lost him, but already had good depth at RB and a good O-line to help out.

Ade Jimoh Fan Club · 07-30-2004, 11:54 AM

Champ was going to leave the Skins one way or another - so I say good riddence to that ass-monkey!

I think Smoot & Springs will be a great tandem - but I also think they will be unfairly scrutinized if our D-Line doesn't apply much pressure to the QB. If the QB has enough time, you could have two Darell Green's back there and they'll get beat from time to time.

Hogskin · 07-30-2004, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Guy

right, people keep trying to figure out who got the better end of the deal, but honestly, I think both teams came out ahead.

champ was NOT going to stay here, so we got a top five running game out of it... something we desperately needed, and something gibbs would hate to be without. Champ was replaced by extensive secondary depth which should counteract his loss.

denver got an improved secondary so its no longer the sad excuse it was... they gave up a big back who was (rightfully) a bit miffed about earning minimum wage... they lost him, but already had good depth at RB and a good O-line to help out.

Well, I believe that by the middle of the season, this trade is going to be one of the all-time NFL laughers. I disagree that Denver is deep at RB. Portis is definitely the real thing. Terrell Davis was the real thing. The rest of the guys that went through there were the very lucky recipients of easy yardage thanks to one of the best OL's in the league. But the OL coach has moved on to Atlanta. Redskin fans have seen what that means. The Denver fans that have grown to think you can put anyone in the Denver backfield, and he will be an immediate stud, are in for a very rude awakening, and a disappointing season.

Even if Champ has a better season in Denver than he had last year, he will not have NEARLY the "impact" a stud RB would have. One very good CB? There are lots of other places on the field to throw - you can effectively take him out of the game. But a stud RB takes the game to the defense, and will impact every game.

memphisskin · 07-30-2004, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hogskin

But the OL coach has moved on to Atlanta. Redskin fans have seen what that means. The Denver fans that have grown to think you can put anyone in the Denver backfield, and he will be an immediate stud, are in for a very rude awakening, and a disappointing season.

Exactly. Shanahan is not the most humble of coaches, and while you cannot argue with the string of success that he's had with RBs the loss of Alex Gibbs will loom large this season. I mean the guy retired once before and they brought him back as a consultant because the OL play had begun to suffer.

What greater irony is there than the Broncos being able to plug in any back and have a successful running game after ALL those years of struggling to find any back to run when Elway was there? Or am I just showing my age again?

BTW, I just love the Frerotte icon. What a maroon!

That Guy · 07-30-2004, 01:55 PM

right, star CBs are much rarer, but their overall impact on a team isn't nearly as noticeable. I'd pick portis every time.

SKINSnCANES · 07-30-2004, 02:40 PM

haha, i never even thought of that as a freotte icon, awesome.

SKINSnCANES · 07-30-2004, 04:53 PM

yea, russel didnt play hardly at all. And if anything Smith made our defense worth because of all the trouble and rifts he was causing. Smith would just walk out on plays because he was tired, or got his sack and didnt care anymore. Having four dlinemen that try is an upgrade. Griffin is a fighter and gives his all, he didnt get teh sacks last year but he caused pressure. Hopefully daniels and griffin will live up to their form from two years ago

SmootSmack · 07-30-2004, 05:06 PM

Dan Wilkinson and Jessie Armstead said something pretty interesting a couple of years ago, during Marvin Lewis' year with the team. I don't remember exactly what they said, but the gist of it was

"We have to make certain adjustments when Bruce is out there with us. We have to compensate for him, because his concern isn't adjusting to the system, it's getting to the quarterback. But that's cool because he's a Hall-of-Famer and he's going after the record"

So yeah, Bruce Smith racked up a lot of sacks but at what cost to the team? I know, you wouldn't think sacks would be detrimental to the team but I suppose they could be right?

Hogskin · 07-30-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smootsmack

So yeah, Bruce Smith racked up a lot of sacks but at what cost to the team? I know, you wouldn't think sacks would be detrimental to the team but I suppose they could be right?

Very well put, Smack!! Yes the defense looked like it was in disarray a lot of the time. Partly, as you pointed out, due to Smith, and partly do to Arrington being told to freelance - WITH NO GUIDELINES AND NO COORDINATION WITH THE REST OF THE D!! (I know - I'm off the subject...) He was a big problem on many plays last year, but it absolutely was due to bad coaching, not his fault. It will be SO nice for a guy with a truely positive attitude and team values to finally get the opportunity to live up to his great potential!! I am totally confident he will come through.

07-30-2004, 02:40 PM	#9
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,455	haha, i never even thought of that as a freotte icon, awesome. __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

07-30-2004, 04:53 PM	#10
SKINSnCANES Pro Bowl Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: New Jersey Age: 44 Posts: 5,455	yea, russel didnt play hardly at all. And if anything Smith made our defense worth because of all the trouble and rifts he was causing. Smith would just walk out on plays because he was tired, or got his sack and didnt care anymore. Having four dlinemen that try is an upgrade. Griffin is a fighter and gives his all, he didnt get teh sacks last year but he caused pressure. Hopefully daniels and griffin will live up to their form from two years ago __________________ "I'm used to winning, coming from the University of Miami. " Clinton Portis

07-30-2004, 05:06 PM	#11
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Dan Wilkinson and Jessie Armstead said something pretty interesting a couple of years ago, during Marvin Lewis' year with the team. I don't remember exactly what they said, but the gist of it was "We have to make certain adjustments when Bruce is out there with us. We have to compensate for him, because his concern isn't adjusting to the system, it's getting to the quarterback. But that's cool because he's a Hall-of-Famer and he's going after the record" So yeah, Bruce Smith racked up a lot of sacks but at what cost to the team? I know, you wouldn't think sacks would be detrimental to the team but I suppose they could be right? __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

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07-30-2004, 07:54 AM	#2
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	yeah, the only way it'd be possible is if we offered our entire secondary or something though SD has much more pressing needs than one good CB at $65 mill (or whatever it was).

07-30-2004, 10:49 AM	#3
memphisskin Impact Rookie Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Nashville, TN Age: 54 Posts: 960	It's obvious the trade is beneficial to both teams, my hope is that we meet them in the Super Bowl soon and settle it on the field. As far as the debate about who is the more talented corner, I'd say Ty Law is probably the best just because he always seems to be making plays. That said, I think changing systems every year has severely stunted Champ's growth, and LaVar's as well. It takes time to foster trust and to really understand the point that coaches are trying to make, witness LaVar's statements about Marvin Lewis playing him at end. I can respect Champ wanting to leave the Skins because there's no way he can have the same passion that we fans do about the team because for him it is his real life and career. When Gibbs came back all of us welcomed him with open arms because we believe that Snyder finally has brought us stability. But it's a lot easier to judge from the outside looking in. From Champ's perspective things must look a lot differently, he witnessed a lot of turnover and this last move might seem brilliant to all of us but to him it might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. No matter. In the end, we do lose a great corner but we pick up a darned good one in Springs. And we also get a great back in Portis, so I'll take my chances with CP.

07-30-2004, 11:31 AM	#4
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	right, people keep trying to figure out who got the better end of the deal, but honestly, I think both teams came out ahead. champ was NOT going to stay here, so we got a top five running game out of it... something we desperately needed, and something gibbs would hate to be without. Champ was replaced by extensive secondary depth which should counteract his loss. denver got an improved secondary so its no longer the sad excuse it was... they gave up a big back who was (rightfully) a bit miffed about earning minimum wage... they lost him, but already had good depth at RB and a good O-line to help out.

07-30-2004, 11:54 AM	#5
Ade Jimoh Fan Club Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 410	Champ was going to leave the Skins one way or another - so I say good riddence to that ass-monkey! I think Smoot & Springs will be a great tandem - but I also think they will be unfairly scrutinized if our D-Line doesn't apply much pressure to the QB. If the QB has enough time, you could have two Darell Green's back there and they'll get beat from time to time.

07-30-2004, 01:55 PM	#8
That Guy Living Legend Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: VA Age: 43 Posts: 17,620	right, star CBs are much rarer, but their overall impact on a team isn't nearly as noticeable. I'd pick portis every time.

Missing Champ Bailey...

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