Does prayer work?

[saden1]

The real question is why do people attribute good things that happen to them to prayers being answered and bad things that happen to them to misfortune. You always hear people say god works in mysterious ways but when I think about it I am really disturbed at the way he works. Makes me wonder if god is toying with us for his own amusement.

[kingerock]

Let me take a stab at this...

First I will qualify/disqualify myself. I work for a ministry at a pretty large church in Texas. We are non-denominational, meaning our focus has nothing to do with any groups' leanings. Our goal as a ministry is for each person to experience God and that relationship in a personal way, and to be able to fully enjoy that relationship.

If we take the definition of prayer as communication with a deity, then the answer depends on the deity. Communication is 2 way, so prayer isn't reciting memorized scripture or speaking shakespearean english into your hands, it's talking to that deity and that deity responding. If the deity you are communicating with exists, and chooses to have communication with you and relationship with you, then yes, prayer works.

Prayer isn't, however, begging said diety to do what you ask. That's not communication, that's manipulation. For instance, everytime my kids ask for candy or money, I don't give it to them. I am looking out for their best interest, and candy for dinner and money for things they don't need isn't always in their best interest. Does that mean that parenting doesn't work because I didn't answer their 'prayers' to me? I did answer, but like stated in previous posts, my answer was no.

I think that we've developed a culture that thinks that prayer is just asking God for stuff. I will admit here, that as a Christian of over 25 years, I rarely at this point in my life ask God for 'things' in my prayers. I usually pray for the safety and protection of others, and I ask for wisdom and grace in my day to day endevours.

So if I am communicating back and forth with a deity that exists and wants a relationship with us, then yes, prayer works wheather we are getting the answers we want or not.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by kingerock

Let me take a stab at this...

First I will qualify/disqualify myself. I work for a ministry at a pretty large church in Texas. We are non-denominational, meaning our focus has nothing to do with any groups' leanings. Our goal as a ministry is for each person to experience God and that relationship in a personal way, and to be able to fully enjoy that relationship.

If we take the definition of prayer as communication with a deity, then the answer depends on the deity. Communication is 2 way, so prayer isn't reciting memorized scripture or speaking shakespearean english into your hands, it's talking to that deity and that deity responding. If the deity you are communicating with exists, and chooses to have communication with you and relationship with you, then yes, prayer works.

Prayer isn't, however, begging said diety to do what you ask. That's not communication, that's manipulation. For instance, everytime my kids ask for candy or money, I don't give it to them. I am looking out for their best interest, and candy for dinner and money for things they don't need isn't always in their best interest. Does that mean that parenting doesn't work because I didn't answer their 'prayers' to me? I did answer, but like stated in previous posts, my answer was no.

I think that we've developed a culture that thinks that prayer is just asking God for stuff. I will admit here, that as a Christian of over 25 years, I rarely at this point in my life ask God for 'things' in my prayers. I usually pray for the safety and protection of others, and I ask for wisdom and grace in my day to day endevours.

So if I am communicating back and forth with a deity that exists and wants a relationship with us, then yes, prayer works wheather we are getting the answers we want or not.

Slight problem with your comments...this comes from bible.com:
Mark 11:24 (Whole Chapter)
"Therefore I say to you, [Matt 7:7] all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Slight problem with your comments...this comes from bible.com:
Mark 11:24 (Whole Chapter)
"Therefore I say to you, [Matt 7:7] all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they will be granted you.

Isn't that what The Secret by Rhonda Byrne all about?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

Isn't that what The Secret by Rhonda Byrne all about?

Actually yes, and there are many connections from the bible to "the secret".

Coincidentally, I have lost faith in "the secret" too. I stayed amazingly positive and it seemed worse and worse things kept happening to me. Felt a little like Job. (pronounced jobe, not job)

[kingerock]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Does prayer work?

I guess the question to ask you is, 'what are you praying for?'

[jsarno]

LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.

I understand your frustration. But I guess I have to ask then why did you start this thread? If people give you examples of when they believe prayer worked for them, and your response is just "Well good for you, but it hasn't for me." Then what were you hoping to get out of this thread?

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I understand your frustration. But I guess I have to ask then why did you start this thread? If people give you examples of when they believe prayer worked for them, and your response is just "Well good for you, but it hasn't for me." Then what were you hoping to get out of this thread?

Well, it's not people, it's LB that has provided an example, and knowing how God works, I am unsure if her recollection is correct.
But you are right. I should have not have questioned it. Fact is, I am seeking examples cause I need to know that prayer does indeed work, cause if it doesn't, then who is to say the entire bible is false too? If prayer is a crock, then it's not impossible to make the leap that the entire bible is a crock. If they can lie about one situation, they can lie about anything and everywhere.
I am seeking answers, and LB was the only one trying to truely supply answers.
I am a lost soul right now and in need of help.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, it's not people, it's LB that has provided an example, and knowing how God works, I am unsure if her recollection is correct.
But you are right. I should have not have questioned it. Fact is, I am seeking examples cause I need to know that prayer does indeed work, cause if it doesn't, then who is to say the entire bible is false too? If prayer is a crock, then it's not impossible to make the leap that the entire bible is a crock. If they can lie about one situation, they can lie about anything and everywhere.
I am seeking answers, and LB was the only one trying to truely supply answers.
I am a lost soul right now and in need of help.

Well, I just don't know that there's any way to prove these examples. That doesn't make them wrong, just hard to prove.

Case in point, a couple of years ago I had a top job in DC (radio executive for a major company), had just put money down on a new condo, clean bill of health, and engaged to be married.

Next thing I know, I'm suddenly fired, I have to give up my condo because I can no longer afford it, my fiancee and I break up after she tells me "I just want to get married, doesn't really matter to me if it's with you.", and, after extremely abnormal test results, I suddenly find myself being tested for serious diseases like emphysema and lung cancer (keep in mind I don't smoke).

I give up all hope. My mom insists that I can't get down on myself, and that she will (as she does every day since she knew she was pregnant with me) pray for me and she knows in time things will come.

Today I'm living the dream at ESPN (most days), all my test results came out negative and I'm back to a clean bill of health, and I've met someone special who I know loves me for me not for the ring I can put on her finger.

Did my mom's prayers work? Who knows. You could say well she's always prayed for you and it didn't stop you from getting fired, losing that first girl, etc. But at the same time you could say well maybe I needed that to get to, and appreciate, where I am now.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, I just don't know that there's any way to prove these examples. That doesn't make them wrong, just hard to prove.

Case in point, a couple of years ago I had a top job in DC (radio executive for a major company), had just put money down on a new condo, clean bill of health, and engaged to be married.

Next thing I know, I'm suddenly fired, I have to give up my condo because I can no longer afford it, my fiancee and I break up after she tells me "I just want to get married, doesn't really matter to me if it's with you.", and, after extremely abnormal test results, I suddenly find myself being tested for serious diseases like emphysema and lung cancer (keep in mind I don't smoke).

I give up all hope. My mom insists that I can't get down on myself, and that she will (as she does every day since she knew she was pregnant with me) pray for me and she knows in time things will come.

Today I'm living the dream at ESPN (most days), all my test results came out negative and I'm back to a clean bill of health, and I've met someone special who I know loves me for me not for the ring I can put on her finger.

Did my mom's prayers work? Who knows. You could say well she's always prayed for you and it didn't stop you from getting fired, losing that first girl, etc. But at the same time you could say well maybe I needed that to get to, and appreciate, where I am now.

That's a very good story, and I appreciate you sharing it. That is the sort of thing I am looking for. That would be a strong example of how prayer could work.
What did you do between getting fired and getting the ESPN job? (pm me if need be) How did you get the ESPN job?

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LB, I do not mean to offend you. I am just very very frustrated. I keep hearing something like "He knows best", and trust Him, and while I certainly did, I have been led down a dead end. He had to have known I would have lost my faith in prayer had he ignored my prayers.

I'm not offended. I've been where you are and there are prayers I have prayed for years that have yet to answered. It's ok to question God. It's also ok to be frustrated and angry with Him at times.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

I'm not offended. I've been where you are and there are prayers I have prayed for years that have yet to answered. It's ok to question God. It's also ok to be frustrated and angry with Him at times.

I am just lost...I don't know what to do.
Even my wife said that she's known me for over 12 years (been married over 10) and she has never seen indecision in me, nor has she ever seen fear in my eyes. I have been held at knife point in front of her and I didn't have fear in my eyes. I don't feel like it's "fear" but there is definitely a problem with indecision now. My confidence has been shaken to it's core.

[Lady Brave]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I am just lost...I don't know what to do.
Even my wife said that she's known me for over 12 years (been married over 10) and she has never seen indecision in me, nor has she ever seen fear in my eyes. I have been held at knife point in front of her and I didn't have fear in my eyes. I don't feel like it's "fear" but there is definitely a problem with indecision now. My confidence has been shaken to it's core.

The best advice I can offer is to find someone, such as your pastor, to sit down with and talk about your frustrations. We're called on to bear one another's burdens, so maybe it will help talking to someone else to gain a different perspective on the situation.

I would also suggest praying that God would reveal anything in your life that is hindering you. There may be some areas that you haven't surrendered to Him. Eventually, when you've done all you can do, you just have to leave it in His hands and cast all your cares on Him. He might be trying to work things out for you, but you keep getting in the way.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Lady Brave

The best advice I can offer is to find someone, such as your pastor, to sit down with and talk about your frustrations. We're called on to bear one another's burdens, so maybe it will help talking to someone else to gain a different perspective on the situation.

I would also suggest praying that God would reveal anything in your life that is hindering you. There may be some areas that you haven't surrendered to Him. Eventually, when you've done all you can do, you just have to leave it in His hands and cast all your cares on Him. He might be trying to work things out for you, but you keep getting in the way.

My wife has said that to me at least 4 times.

It's good advice.