WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?

[freddyg12]

A little perspective on another beatdown. On 9/29/85 the eventual champ Bears stomped Gibbs' Skins, 45-10 (Keep in mind. Back then coaches didn't run up the score unless they had a personal beef w/each other. Ditka & Gibbs always respected 1 another.)

A year later, see the entry from wikipedia below (notice the injury list). In addition to that, we beat them in the 1987-8 playoffs & went on to win the super bowl.

My point?
Gibbs has been through this before & while I agree w/much of what Shapiro said, this team may not be as far away as we think.

"The Bears were heavy favorites in the post season. They earned a first round bye. But in the first game at Soldier Field, they were upset by the Washington Redskins. A holding penalty and a missed field goal by Kevin Butler frustrated the Bears in the first quarter. However, they still managed to take a 13-7 lead into halftime. But their usual stellar defense fell apart in the second half, allowing the Redskins to score 20 unanswered points.

"Maybe my dreams didn't come true," said Chicago Coach Mike Ditka. "The defense has to play outstanding and today they were just not up to the way the Redskins were playing."

Despite injuries to offensive linemen Joe Jacoby and Russ Grimm, they and the rest of the blockers were able to pick up the Bears patented blitzes. Quarterback Jay Schroeder was sacked only twice. He was also able to use the blitzes to his advantage, completing passes while being chased out of the pocket.

Trailing 14-13 in the 4th quarter, the Bears good fortune ran out, when the usually dependable Payton lost a fumble, which led to an 83-yard touchdown drive by the Redskins. The long drive perpetrated against the NFL's best defense seemed to take the wind out of the Bears' sails. A few minutes later, the Bears muffed a punt return which set up an easy field goal for the Redskins.

When it was all said and done, the Bears lost 27-13. Still, they had a fantastic season overall, despite their weaknesses on offense and the poor play of their quarterbacks."

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

A little perspective on another beatdown. On 9/29/85 the eventual champ Bears stomped Gibbs' Skins, 45-10 (Keep in mind. Back then coaches didn't run up the score unless they had a personal beef w/each other. Ditka & Gibbs always respected 1 another.)

A year later, see the entry from wikipedia below (notice the injury list). In addition to that, we beat them in the 1987-8 playoffs & went on to win the super bowl.

My point?
Gibbs has been through this before & while I agree w/much of what Shapiro said, this team may not be as far away as we think.

"The Bears were heavy favorites in the post season. They earned a first round bye. But in the first game at Soldier Field, they were upset by the Washington Redskins. A holding penalty and a missed field goal by Kevin Butler frustrated the Bears in the first quarter. However, they still managed to take a 13-7 lead into halftime. But their usual stellar defense fell apart in the second half, allowing the Redskins to score 20 unanswered points.

"Maybe my dreams didn't come true," said Chicago Coach Mike Ditka. "The defense has to play outstanding and today they were just not up to the way the Redskins were playing."

Despite injuries to offensive linemen Joe Jacoby and Russ Grimm, they and the rest of the blockers were able to pick up the Bears patented blitzes. Quarterback Jay Schroeder was sacked only twice. He was also able to use the blitzes to his advantage, completing passes while being chased out of the pocket.

Trailing 14-13 in the 4th quarter, the Bears good fortune ran out, when the usually dependable Payton lost a fumble, which led to an 83-yard touchdown drive by the Redskins. The long drive perpetrated against the NFL's best defense seemed to take the wind out of the Bears' sails. A few minutes later, the Bears muffed a punt return which set up an easy field goal for the Redskins.

When it was all said and done, the Bears lost 27-13. Still, they had a fantastic season overall, despite their weaknesses on offense and the poor play of their quarterbacks."

Fair enough, but do you really think we could ever beat the Patriots with this team? Honestly? If we played 100 times could we win one?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Fair enough, but do you really think we could ever beat the Patriots with this team? Honestly? If we played 100 times could we win one?

Actually, yes. They are by far the better team, but I thought going in we had a chance. I thought we still had a chance when we got Brady's fumble. Once they got a fumble in return, the wheels came off. The D was clearly worn out, more mentally than physically.

JC missed a couple throws he shouldn't have in the 1st half & the fumbles were due mainly to poor blocks, although Vrabel made a hell of a play on the one when he snuck up under CP. Even a 52-7 game still hinges on a couple plays. Not saying we'd won, but if we score to make it 17-7 at half, you have a different game.

In addition, GW didn't want to blitz w/Rogers & Smoot healthy, but if we were to play them again I think he'd definitely have a different game plan that included at least a few blitzes.

We got whooped but I don't think we're as bad as we played. Much of it is psychological and Gibbs biggest task is to get this team to step up & take control like they did in 05 after losing to the g-men & oakland. That aspect of Gibbs is what I have confidence in.

[scowan]

You guys, I read an article a few years back that said there is not a lot of difference between teams that finish 10-6 or 6-10. A few plays here and there every week decides these team's fates. Teams that finish 11-5 or higher or 5-11 or lower are clearly better or worst than most teams they face. Last year the Skins were 5-11 with injuries and a QB change. The Skins were not that good at all. This year they are one of these teams that will finish somewhere between 10-6 and 6-10. I am personally hoping for the 10-6, or 9-7 side of this scale, but again a few plays here or there in each game will determine the Redskin's fates. A lot of those plays are luck and don't have anything to do with coaching, (missed FG, dropped pass, a fumble you don't recover) they are all "breaks" that either go your way or don't. We all know that the Skins have had a conservative game plan, the only fault with that to me is that Gibbs is trying too hard to control these "breaks", when you really can't. The best you can do with the talent of a 10-6 to 6-10 scaled team, (which IMO is the skill level of the team we have currently) is to play all out every play every week and hope more "breaks" come your way than the other team. Teams like the Pats, and the Colts don't play that way, because they are 11-5 or higher teams. The Skins are not.

[redsk1]

For the record i'd like to see Gibbs stay at least til the end of next year. The article doesn't really say anything new. There is alot of truth to it, but nothing new.

There are really 2 sides to Gibbs 2.0.

Gibbs and co. have really done some great things in FA and in the draft. W/out doing my homework you've got Cooley, ST, Rocky, Landry, Golston, Montgomery, JC, & Rogers that have been drafted. You've got MW, Fletcher, Moss, ARE, Randy Thomas, Rabach, as some noteable FA's.

On the other hand some of the FO blunders leave a black eye on all of the good things they've done. #1 imo is the Brunell deal. Most didn't understand it at the time and still don't. Then you have in no particular order the Portis deal-throwing in a pick, LLoyd, Duckett, and AA. Just horrible deals that we all questioned at the time.

No new news here and sorry to bring it up again but the point is we do need a GM. This season still can be a success though, so the doom and gloom of the article for this year i don't really agree w/. I'm not ready to give up on it yet as we are 4-3.

[SmootSmack]

Unless we hire The All Mighty himself as General Manager, anyone we bring in will make plenty of mistakes as well. This notion that a GM is just going to magically fix everything (and never mind that they would still probably answer to at least Gibbs and Snyder) is beyond me.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Unless we hire The All Mighty himself as General Manager, anyone we bring in will make plenty of mistakes as well. This notion that a GM is just going to magically fix everything (and never mind that they would still probably answer to at least Gibbs and Snyder) is beyond me.

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

For all of the criticism heaped on the front office (and some of it is much deserved), there aren't too many FA moves we've made since 2000 that I disagree with. What big-money free agent deals would you take back? I'd only go with Trotter, Archuleta, Duckett, and Lloyd. People, including myself, were highly critical of the trades to nab Jason Campbell and Rocky McIntosh. And while the jury is still out on those guys, the moves actually look pretty damn good right now.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

For all of the criticism heaped on the front office (and some of it is much deserved), there aren't too many FA moves we've made since 2000 that I disagree with. What big-money free agent deals would you take back? I'd only go with Trotter, Archuleta, Duckett, and Lloyd. People, including myself, were highly critical of the trades to nab Jason Campbell and Rocky McIntosh. And while the jury is still out on those guys, the moves actually look pretty damn good right now.

There are alot of good moves too, no question. I posted them earlier in the thread. We need to avoid the lloyds, AA, Duckett, Portis draft pick, etc.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

I think that's a misperception simply because we follow the team so closely compared to other teams.

[70Chip]

I say yes. He should walk away right now in the middle of the season. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

I say yes. He should walk away right now in the middle of the season. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

Retire mid-season when you've got a 4-3 record and headed for 5-3? Wow. You can't be a critic of Danny's hasty moves that show no patience. Please say you are joking.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think that's a misperception simply because we follow the team so closely compared to other teams.

I don't know, maybe. However...I don't remember any other team willing to sign Mark Brunell to a long term deal, giving away picks to do so(i believe..) at that point in his career. I could go on and question each FO choice but its common knowledge around the league that our front office/personel dept has made alot of blatant errors. We practically have given our draft away the last few years from mostly poor decisions.

Sure there are some fa busts around the league, but other teams busts aren't the highest paid FA's on the market. At least i can't think of any.

[irish]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I don't know, maybe. However...I don't remember any other team willing to sign Mark Brunell to a long term deal, giving away picks to do so(i believe..) at that point in his career. I could go on and question each FO choice but its common knowledge around the league that our front office/personel dept has made alot of blatant errors. We practically have given our draft away the last few years from mostly poor decisions.

Sure there are some fa busts around the league, but other teams busts aren't the highest paid FA's on the market. At least i can't think of any.

I agree 100%. The Skins have way more FA disappointments than surprises. As for giving away draft picks for nothing, I have been saying that for awhile now. Most successful teams (Steelers, Pats) build a foundation and depth through the draft and get a FA to fill a hole and put the team over the top. The Skins retool every year with FAs and draft to plug holes. Its not working. This organization need a complete change in how they build a lasting winning team not just a one year wonder (which they cant do either).

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I don't know, maybe. However...I don't remember any other team willing to sign Mark Brunell to a long term deal, giving away picks to do so(i believe..) at that point in his career. I could go on and question each FO choice but its common knowledge around the league that our front office/personel dept has made alot of blatant errors. We practically have given our draft away the last few years from mostly poor decisions.

Sure there are some fa busts around the league, but other teams busts aren't the highest paid FA's on the market. At least i can't think of any.

How about Darren Howard and Jevon Kearse? The Eagles fans are about to lynch Kearse, Bang cartoons made a skit about Kearse being a bust, and Howard can't crack the starting lineup. Or how about the 49ers free agent spending spree? How is that working out?

If you create a list of all Redskins free agents since 2001 who got $5M+ in bonus money, our track record is suprisingly good. As for draft picks, the results have been mixed and we've given too many away. But, I don't think the media's perception (i.e., conventional wisdom) of the Redskins front office is exactly 20/20. In discussing the Redskins moves they still talk about 2000. We made some boneheaded moves in 2000, but that was 7 years ago. I had a b----h of a girlfriend 7 years ago, but I've let that go. Apparently, the media has some sort of love/hate affair with us.....they just can't let stuff go.