AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!

[irish]

Originally Posted by JWsleep

Forget the pats--we've got to clean up our own house right now.

My feeling about the "back to basics" thing is that it may not be back to Gibbs' basics as much as back to what this team can do--I don't think they have the o-line to smash many mouths, but they may have the o-line to do other things. In fact, it might be that they STOP trying to smash it, and start trying to move a bit more and use the athletic ability of people like Rabach, for example.

As for progress ,we're 4-3 with the season ahead of us. One thing that's often lost here is how much of football is momentum and confidence. We don't have either right now. But when we get that (if we do), lots of things that are not working now will work. It's a game of inches, and if we can find a way to get that inch, things will open up, IMO.

As for Saunders--we'll see. I'm not convinced that he and Gibbs cannot work together, and that's something they've got to figure out, fast, if they are messing radically with things. My feeling is it won't be so radical, but it will still be Saunders. That may ham-string Saunders with his big playbook, but it may give us a chance to finally execute some of his plays, which we haven't done to this point, at least not consistently.

The problem is that 4 years after Gibbs gets here we are still having to worry about cleaning up our own house. We should be in the fine tuning stage now not clean up.

[skinsfan69]

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Oh my god. Back to 05. We beat a bunch of teams that were playing with back up QB's. I'm not taking anything away from that but we got alot of nice breaks with other teams injuries. But the Dallas and Giants game were legit.

But in the end that 11th ranked offense couldn't even get 50 yards passing in a playoff game and had to have the defense win the game. That is why Sanders has a job here.

What does an opponents' QB have to do with running all over a defense? And how is it that you attribute other teams' losses to their injuries, but you don't attribute our woes on offense during the 2005 playoffs to our injuries (e.g., Portis)? Why the double-standard?

As for the notion that teams must field pass-first offenses in order to be successful, I beg to differ. As others have pointed out, look no further than to teams like the Steelers, Jags, Titans, Bears, Falcons, Ravens, etc.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Or to our 11th ranked 2005 offense which ran the ball over everyone and their momma. I believe Gibbs called the plays for that offense.

Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game as long as they try something new. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Don't forget to go along with that smashmouth style, we also had a pretty good passing game. Brunell was the 3rd rated passer in the NFC that year, and likely should have gone to the probowl, but they had to make room for the wonderful person that his Michael Vick, the 14th rated passer in the NFC, who was almost as efficient as Josh McCown.

This team just seems to be better on offense with an efficent running game, although the passing game needs to be clicking also.

In the first half of 2006, the rushing game was terrible, but the passing game kept us close (which is good because we were chasing because we were running the ball awful and playing crappy defense) against bad teams. Then we benched our QB and our passing game, but our rushing game found itself.

This year, the idea was going to be to put it back together like in 2005, but on the contrary, both aspect are crappy although for entirely different reasons.

The offense may very well need the running game to come back for the passing game to be effective. Our timing routes don't work. Period. I have no problem with the coaches trying to reestablish the running game as long as they try something new. The old crap from the last 6 games isn't going to work, and we are wasting plays trying it.

A QB's best friend is a competant running game, and Campbell doesn't have it right now for the first time in his college or pro career.

The 2005 offense stunk when it mattered most and that is why Sanders is here.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Tell that to teams like the Steelers and Jags who still play a smashmouth, run first style of play.

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

How many playoff games has Jacksonville won since Del Rio took over with his style of play? None. That style only gets you so far in today's NFL.. Especially in the AFC.

Regarding Pittsburgh, yes they play smashmouth BUT they get big plays out of the passing game all the time. 15 passing TD's this year. Only NE, Dallas and Clev. have more. They get the ball to the wideouts, Ward and Holmes.

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

How do you think they set up the big plays?

As for those teams you mentioned only Detroit and Green Bay don't run the ball well, and even Detroit has been coming on as of late. You simply can't discount the importance of being able to the run ball. If Green Bay doesn't find a running game I don't care how well they can throw it their inability to run it will catch up with them come playoff time.

In no way do I discount it. Not at all. But I just don't think it's life or death like Gibbs and Bugel do. That is why they are not in touch with today's NFL. If they would just look around they would see what the good teams are doing and adjust. That's why I'm so down on Gibbs. He was simply the master at adjusting his 1st go around. Who was better at adjusting than Gibbs 1? No one.

If he would just look at the line he would know that they can't play smash mouth. Everyone knows we are going to run to the left side, and Fabini and Wade can not run block.

I remember the 89 team. Just barely missed the playoffs cause of massive injuries. The rb's were all beat up and he just said I'm going to put it on Monk, Clark and Sanders. That was the year all 3 went over 1,000 yards. How many times has that ever been done in the NFL? 2-3 times maybe?? So this is the stuff I'm talking about. The guy knows offensive football. He was the first one to come out with the bunch sets and one back stuff. But he is so damn stubborn about opening up the offense and putting it on the WR's who are suppose to be the strength of the team. Plus he's got Sanders here. Yet we still can't score points and we are 27th or 28th in offense? We have all these wr's and a deep ball thrower yet not one single wr has a td pass this year??? If I were Snyder I would be so damn pissed it's not even funny.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Just look around in the NFC. The teams that pass it the best just happen to have the best records. Dallas, Seattle, NYG, GB, and Det. Even NO who looks like they are going to be in the playoff hunt. All of them can pass it. We can't and that's why we probably are not going anywhere.

Not true.

Combined Record of the Top 10 Rushing Teams (NFL): 50-22

Combined Record of the Top 10 Passing Teams (NFL): 47-25

You simply cannot argue that the passing teams have the best records, because they don't. Using your line of reasoning the only thing you could argue is that the difference is negligible or the rushing teams have a slight advantage.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by saden1

What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.

You forget that the average ADHD football fan is to enamored with the pretty footballs flying through the air to pay attention to statistics.

Fact of the matter is that even the famously "pass happy" offenses like the Patriots and Colts also have Top Ten running games.

The Colts running game is #5 overall, averaging 31 rushes per game, 4.4 YPC and 140 yds/game.

The Patriots running game is #8 overall, averaging 32 rushes per game, 4.2 YPC and 135 yds/game.

As saden said, historically in the NFL the run game is used to establish the pass and I see no reason whatsoever to think any differently in 2007.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mheisig

You forget that the average ADHD football fan is to enamored with the pretty footballs flying through the air to pay attention to statistics.

Fact of the matter is that even the famously "pass happy" offenses like the Patriots and Colts also have Top Ten running games.

The Colts running game is #5 overall, averaging 31 rushes per game, 4.4 YPC and 140 yds/game.

The Patriots running game is #8 overall, averaging 32 rushes per game, 4.2 YPC and 135 yds/game.

As saden said, historically in the NFL the run game is used to establish the pass and I see no reason whatsoever to think any differently in 2007.

The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.