Ocho Stinko: "I want to be traded before the draft"

[lwiedy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

And stop with the all caps.

Ja! mein Fuhrer!

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by lwiedy

Ja! mein Fuhrer!

Dude thats messed up.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Dude thats messed up.

Yeah who's the asshole now eh? I mean...YEAH WHO'S THE ASSHOLE NOW EH???!!!!!!

[The Goat]

CJ works his butt off no matter what IMHO. I don't think it matters who he plays for, the guy loves to ball on gameday as much or more as anyone else in the league (and he always comes physically and mentally prepared too). In fact, I'll bet if there's no trade he'll continue to work is ass off for Cinci. So if there's a possibility of a trade seems like the issues are 1) is the price right 2) can the new team handle his mouth, which will never stop? I don't want to guess what the price should be. I think most of you are more knowledgeable about player values. What I do think is that his mouth would be a problem for us. We're a team of team-players and Ocho-cinco is no team-player IMO. And we have a young coach who's probably never had to deal w/ someone like CJ.

I say pass but I'd like to be wrong.

[Ruhskins]

Well, here are my two cents...trading for a case head with lots of talent seemed to work for the Patriots last year. When there were rumors that Moss was going to go to the Packers, ppl in Green Bay were going nuts, and well Moss turned out alright in New England...the Packers would have been a much better team with Moss I believe. And Moss was a guy that quit on his two previous teams, which by the way are not the best managed teams in the league.

I will be the first one to say CJ is a jerk, has a huge ego, and talks wayyy too much. I will also say that the Bengals are a mess as an organization, and they make it seem as though being tough with CJ (one of the few guys on the team that hasn't gotten in trouble with the law) is going to solve all their problems....well this is not going to solver their problems. However, like Moss, CJ is a very talented WR, and unlike Moss, CJ has never quit on his team (or walked off before the end of a game).

Now, should the Redskins get CJ...well I would say if the price is right or the situation is right, yes. If the Bengals are asking for a 1st and a 3rd round....I think that would be a lot to pay for CJ. Now people here have told me that we shouldn't take players to prevent other teams from getting them, but I can see the Eagles sending Lito Shepard (sp?) and a 3rd/4th rd pick to the Bengals for CJ. And I don't think any of us want to see the Eagles with a Pro Bowl WR. Or I can see Jerry Jones gambling and sending one of his 1st rd picks for CJ....yeah there are questions about TO and CJ surviving in one team, but hey they will have two #1 WRs.

Speaking of #1 WRs, I think people make a good point about whether CJ would be the #1 WR and Santana would be demoted to #2 and how that would work out. Well, the way I see it, CJ and TJ Housh are two #1 receivers. And I think both have fared well. Even if CJ were not to get the same numbers he has had before, he would open up the field for our WR, which would make us a better team, and send us back in the playoffs.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well, here are my two cents...trading for a case head with lots of talent seemed to work for the Patriots last year. When there were rumors that Moss was going to go to the Packers, ppl in Green Bay were going nuts, and well Moss turned out alright in New England...the Packers would have been a much better team with Moss I believe. And Moss was a guy that quit on his two previous teams, which by the way are not the best managed teams in the league.

I will be the first one to say CJ is a jerk, has a huge ego, and talks wayyy too much. I will also say that the Bengals are a mess as an organization, and they make it seem as though being tough with CJ (one of the few guys on the team that hasn't gotten in trouble with the law) is going to solve all their problems....well this is not going to solver their problems. However, like Moss, CJ is a very talented WR, and unlike Moss, CJ has never quit on his team (or walked off before the end of a game).

Now, should the Redskins get CJ...well I would say if the price is right or the situation is right, yes. If the Bengals are asking for a 1st and a 3rd round....I think that would be a lot to pay for CJ. Now people here have told me that we shouldn't take players to prevent other teams from getting them, but I can see the Eagles sending Lito Shepard (sp?) and a 3rd/4th rd pick to the Bengals for CJ. And I don't think any of us want to see the Eagles with a Pro Bowl WR. Or I can see Jerry Jones gambling and sending one of his 1st rd picks for CJ....yeah there are questions about TO and CJ surviving in one team, but hey they will have two #1 WRs.

Speaking of #1 WRs, I think people make a good point about whether CJ would be the #1 WR and Santana would be demoted to #2 and how that would work out. Well, the way I see it, CJ and TJ Housh are two #1 receivers. And I think both have fared well. Even if CJ were not to get the same numbers he has had before, he would open up the field for our WR, which would make us a better team, and send us back in the playoffs.

Positive rep points for this. While I may not agree with it all, at least it's a solid post with some thought behind it. Nice job

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well, here are my two cents...trading for a case head with lots of talent seemed to work for the Patriots last year. When there were rumors that Moss was going to go to the Packers, ppl in Green Bay were going nuts, and well Moss turned out alright in New England...the Packers would have been a much better team with Moss I believe. And Moss was a guy that quit on his two previous teams, which by the way are not the best managed teams in the league.

I will be the first one to say CJ is a jerk, has a huge ego, and talks wayyy too much. I will also say that the Bengals are a mess as an organization, and they make it seem as though being tough with CJ (one of the few guys on the team that hasn't gotten in trouble with the law) is going to solve all their problems....well this is not going to solver their problems. However, like Moss, CJ is a very talented WR, and unlike Moss, CJ has never quit on his team (or walked off before the end of a game).

Now, should the Redskins get CJ...well I would say if the price is right or the situation is right, yes. If the Bengals are asking for a 1st and a 3rd round....I think that would be a lot to pay for CJ. Now people here have told me that we shouldn't take players to prevent other teams from getting them, but I can see the Eagles sending Lito Shepard (sp?) and a 3rd/4th rd pick to the Bengals for CJ. And I don't think any of us want to see the Eagles with a Pro Bowl WR. Or I can see Jerry Jones gambling and sending one of his 1st rd picks for CJ....yeah there are questions about TO and CJ surviving in one team, but hey they will have two #1 WRs.

Speaking of #1 WRs, I think people make a good point about whether CJ would be the #1 WR and Santana would be demoted to #2 and how that would work out. Well, the way I see it, CJ and TJ Housh are two #1 receivers. And I think both have fared well. Even if CJ were not to get the same numbers he has had before, he would open up the field for our WR, which would make us a better team, and send us back in the playoffs.

There's a HUGE difference between the Patriots organization and that of the Redskins. Bellicheat, oh I'm sorry, Belichick knows how to keep players in line and has no problem disciplining anyone should they start cutting up. They also have an owner who stays out of the way and lets the REAL football people do their jobs without his interference. The Redskins organization has proven itself to be dysfunctional and, despite its recent improvements player acquisition-wise, I just don't think it's qualified to deal with a personality like Johnson's. I have no doubts about what he can do on an offense. My fear is, because Danny LOVES him so much, Johnson most likely will come in with the attitude of, "**** you, I can do anything I want." Then, when something happens in the locker room or on the field and Chad isn't happy about it and starts whining, Danny will move heaven and earth for him to keep him happy, even if Chad is wrong. Plus, what we'd have to give up to get him in terms of draft picks (AGAIN!!!!) and salary cap space when we have bigger problems with an aging and injury-prone offensive line, only one proven back-up to the offensive line, questions in the secondary with Shawn Springs' age and Carlos Rogers' health, and no consistent pass-rusher outside of Andre Carter, adding Johnson with all of his talent won't make us an automatic Super Bowl contender. A lot of you may not like reading this sentence, but the Redskins are far from being a player away from Super Bowl-contender status. Getting Johnson is nothing more than a fantasy-football move and won't benefit us in the long term.

[GoSkins!]

I am very divided on this. On one hand, I think our offense could prove to be very hard to deal with if CJ joined the WR group. Many opposing times teams would have to leave Moss in single coverage with the 2nd CB so they could double CJ (or vise-versa). Short of having the defensive line that the Giants have I don't know how I would defend it.

On the other hand, you would be throwing Zorn under the bus. If the offense performs well who gets the credit. CJ is the kind of guy that will take it for himself. If the offense performs bad, who here believes that CJ won't start placing blame?

I have come to the conclusion that if you are going to hire a young head coach, you need to not hire a young head case.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

I am very divided on this. On one hand, I think our offense could prove to be very hard to deal with if CJ joined the WR group. Many opposing times teams would have to leave Moss in single coverage with the 2nd CB so they could double CJ (or vise-versa). Short of having the defensive line that the Giants have I don't know how I would defend it.

On the other hand, you would be throwing Zorn under the bus. If the offense performs well who gets the credit. CJ is the kind of guy that will take it for himself. If the offense performs bad, who here believes that CJ won't start placing blame?

I have come to the conclusion that if you are going to hire a young head coach, you need to not hire a young head case.

They can share the wealth. We needed a better offensive scheme. We got the West Coast offense. We need another WR to compliment Moss. Johnson can be that guy. The only way that Chad would be able to take full credit is if nobody else on the offense has any production.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

I have come to the conclusion that if you are going to hire a young head coach, you need to not hire a young head case.

This sentence is a HUGE reason why we need to pass on Stinko. If things don't go well and Chad starts whining, it's going to have a ripple effect, starting with a man who's in his first head coaching job and trickle on down, poisoning the team.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by KB24

This sentence is a HUGE reason why we need to pass on Stinko. If things don't go well and Chad starts whining, it's going to have a ripple effect, starting with a man who's in his first head coaching job and trickle on down, poisoning the team.

You guys act like Zorn is some flash in the pan, here today and gone tomorrow college coach. He has been in the league for years and under Holmgren for that matter. He is not Petrino or Kiffin.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by KB24

There's a HUGE difference between the Patriots organization and that of the Redskins. Bellicheat, oh I'm sorry, Belichick knows how to keep players in line and has no problem disciplining anyone should they start cutting up. They also have an owner who stays out of the way and lets the REAL football people do their jobs without his interference. The Redskins organization has proven itself to be dysfunctional and, despite its recent improvements player acquisition-wise, I just don't think it's qualified to deal with a personality like Johnson's. I have no doubts about what he can do on an offense. My fear is, because Danny LOVES him so much, Johnson most likely will come in with the attitude of, "**** you, I can do anything I want." Then, when something happens in the locker room or on the field and Chad isn't happy about it and starts whining, Danny will move heaven and earth for him to keep him happy, even if Chad is wrong. Plus, what we'd have to give up to get him in terms of draft picks (AGAIN!!!!) and salary cap space when we have bigger problems with an aging and injury-prone offensive line, only one proven back-up to the offensive line, questions in the secondary with Shawn Springs' age and Carlos Rogers' health, and no consistent pass-rusher outside of Andre Carter, adding Johnson with all of his talent won't make us an automatic Super Bowl contender. A lot of you may not like reading this sentence, but the Redskins are far from being a player away from Super Bowl-contender status. Getting Johnson is nothing more than a fantasy-football move and won't benefit us in the long term.

First off, I wish I had been online last night, but Bravo to Smootsmack and Ruheskins for some great posts.

Now, to respond to this post: Chad Johnson has been in the league for 7 years now. In 7 years time, can you please list for me all of the terrible things that this guy has done to his team? I mean, apparently he needs the discipline that only Belicheck can dish out because he's been in trouble with the law......um......zero times. Has violated the league substance abuse policy......um......zero times. Has been suspended by the NFL......um......zero times. Has gotten into an argument with his coaches, what?....a couple times? In 7 Years? And that makes him an "ASSHOLE"? Please, if I'm missing something, I'm dying to see the laundry list of all the terrible things he's done to destroy his team in his career.

From a football perspective (I know, perish the thought), what I do know is that in his 7 years this is what he's done: Chad Johnson. Taking out his rookie year he's averaged 1,339 yards per year, has had at least 1,100 yards per year in the last 6, and hasn't finished with less than 1,274 in the last 5. Over the last six years he's averaged 8 TDs per year, and hasn't had less than 7 in the last 5 years (and during this time, he's been in trouble with the law or suspended by the league, how many times was it again?......but I digress). He's stayed healthy and has played in every single game for his team for the last 6 years running. Now, from a purely football perspective, please tell me another receiver to wear a Skins Jersey since probably the Posse that can come even close to that. I love Santana Moss, but take a look: Santana Moss, the two just don't compare. To trivialize the impact that CJ would have on any team he goes to is simply allowing your personal feelings to get in the way of any football judgment you may have. You might not like him or want him, but denying his production or the impact he could have?.....history just doesn't support the argument.

Now, if you are firmly in the camp that thinks there is no way we should spend our first rounder on a WR, then ok, I guess the draft picks really are valuable. But looking at the history of young WRs and how many wasted first rounders there have been on "sure thing," "guaranteed superstar" WRs (see Charles Rogers, Peter Warrick, Mike Williams, Michael Westbrook, Desmond Howard, Rod Gardner, etc, etc, etc), I'd trade our first rounder and another mid-rounder in a heartbeat to have what we already know has been a Pro Bowl caliber WR for the last 5-6 years running (as opposed to someone who Mel Kiper "projects" to be a great NFL WR before he even steps foot on an NFL practice field). Personally, I hope we draft DE in the first round, but even if we luck out and get a good to great DE at #21 in the draft, it still wouldn't have the effect that having CJ would have IMO. You mention our thin and old O-line and secondary and lack of a pass-rusher, and I agree those are all areas of concern. So what do you think about our WR corp? Are you seriously going to tell me that our WR group is solid and you're happy to have another year of Moss (who has played 16 games twice in his career) and Randle El (who is a natural #3 WR, not a 2) as our #1 and #2 with who behind them? Seriously, if one of those guys goes down, who is going to step in and step up? Do you really feel all warm and fuzzy about that group and only have questions about the other areas on this team? Let's face it, CJ would make for a huge improvement in the quality and depth of our WR corp (which is crucial to the development of a young QB like JC........I've felt sorry for him more times than I can count when our WRs were so decimated that James Thrash, Reche Caldwell, and Keenan McCardell were the only guys he had to throw to).

Alright, I think I've gone on long enough (and hopefully I've made my points).

[KB24]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

First off, I wish I had been online last night, but Bravo to Smootsmack and Ruheskins for some great posts.

Now, to respond to this post: Chad Johnson has been in the league for 7 years now. In 7 years time, can you please list for me all of the terrible things that this guy has done to his team? I mean, apparently he needs the discipline that only Belicheck can dish out because he's been in trouble with the law......um......zero times. Has violated the league substance abuse policy......um......zero times. Has been suspended by the NFL......um......zero times. Has gotten into an argument with his coaches, what?....a couple times? In 7 Years? And that makes him an "ASSHOLE"? Please, if I'm missing something, I'm dying to see the laundry list of all the terrible things he's done to destroy his team in his career.

From a football perspective (I know, perish the thought), what I do know is that in his 7 years this is what he's done: Chad Johnson. Taking out his rookie year he's averaged 1,339 yards per year, has had at least 1,100 yards per year in the last 6, and hasn't finished with less than 1,274 in the last 5. Over the last six years he's averaged 8 TDs per year, and hasn't had less than 7 in the last 5 years (and during this time, he's been in trouble with the law or suspended by the league, how many times was it again?......but I digress). He's stayed healthy and has played in every single game for his team for the last 6 years running. Now, from a purely football perspective, please tell me another receiver to wear a Skins Jersey since probably the Posse that can come even close to that. I love Santana Moss, but take a look: Santana Moss, the two just don't compare. To trivialize the impact that CJ would have on any team he goes to is simply allowing your personal feelings to get in the way of any football judgment you may have. You might not like him or want him, but denying his production or the impact he could have?.....history just doesn't support the argument.

Now, if you are firmly in the camp that thinks there is no way we should spend our first rounder on a WR, then ok, I guess the draft picks really are valuable. But looking at the history of young WRs and how many wasted first rounders there have been on "sure thing," "guaranteed superstar" WRs (see Charles Rogers, Peter Warrick, Mike Williams, Michael Westbrook, Desmond Howard, Rod Gardner, etc, etc, etc), I'd trade our first rounder and another mid-rounder in a heartbeat to have what we already know has been a Pro Bowl caliber WR for the last 5-6 years running (as opposed to someone who Mel Kiper "projects" to be a great NFL WR before he even steps foot on an NFL practice field). Personally, I hope we draft DE in the first round, but even if we luck out and get a good to great DE at #21 in the draft, it still wouldn't have the effect that having CJ would have IMO. You mention our thin and old O-line and secondary and lack of a pass-rusher, and I agree those are all areas of concern. So what do you think about our WR corp? Are you seriously going to tell me that our WR group is solid and you're happy to have another year of Moss (who has played 16 games twice in his career) and Randle El (who is a natural #3 WR, not a 2) as our #1 and #2 with who behind them? Seriously, if one of those guys goes down, who is going to step in and step up? Do you really feel all warm and fuzzy about that group and only have questions about the other areas on this team? Let's face it, CJ would make for a huge improvement in the quality and depth of our WR corp (which is crucial to the development of a young QB like JC........I've felt sorry for him more times than I can count when our WRs were so decimated that James Thrash, Reche Caldwell, and Keenan McCardell were the only guys he had to throw to).

Alright, I think I've gone on long enough (and hopefully I've made my points).

Yes, Chad Johnson is one of the elite wide receivers in the league. Yes, Chad Johnson has put up some outstanding numbers during his career. And yes, Chad Johnson has kept himself off the police blotter and, as far as we know, has no drug issues. But, look at the way he's carrying on right now. He's acting like a total fool and someone like that can be a potential cancer in the locker room. And given the way Dan Snyder has acted as a fantasy football owner in the past, I just feel like he'd move heaven and earth for Chad even if Chad is in the wrong. Who's to say he won't walk in here and say, "**** you. Danny loves me. I can do want I want?" You're right. Wide receiver is a weak spot on this team. But, I don't want to sacrifice first-round draft picks for a head case who'd cause the team to implode.

Also, for all of his gaudy stats, how many Super Bowls have the Bengals won with him? They haven't even been to the playoffs since 2005 while we've made two appearances in that same time frame. What makes you so sure he'll push us over the top? He'll improve the offense, but I go back to what I said about the other holes this team needs to address with the draft picks we have.

There's also his much-publicized feud with Carson Palmer that culminated in a shouting match after an interception that happened because Stinko ran the wrong route. There was the shoving match/fist fight between him and the assistant coach. Given that we have a new coach and an organization that, while it's improving in terms of player personnel decisions, still has the tendency to be dysfunctional, in my opinion, isn't qualified to handle a personality like that of Johnson's.

It boils down to a fit and I just think mixing Johnson's personality with the organizational make-up as it is now -- not to mention the draft picks we'd have to give up -- would be dangerous for this team.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by KB24

Yes, Chad Johnson is one of the elite wide receivers in the league. Yes, Chad Johnson has put up some outstanding numbers during his career. And yes, Chad Johnson has kept himself off the police blotter and, as far as we know, has no drug issues. But, look at the way he's carrying on right now. He's acting like a total fool and someone like that can be a potential cancer in the locker room. And given the way Dan Snyder has acted as a fantasy football owner in the past, I just feel like he'd move heaven and earth for Chad even if Chad is in the wrong. Who's to say he won't walk in here and say, "**** you. Danny loves me. I can do want I want?" You're right. Wide receiver is a weak spot on this team. But, I don't want to sacrifice first-round draft picks for a head case who'd cause the team to implode.

Well, you've made my point for me. He's been in the league 7 years and all anyone can point to is how he looks right now, at this one moment, in the midst of a contract dispute. I just don't see the support to conclude that he's a locker room cancer or that he would implode the team. The Bengals are the most pathetic franchise in football, and with all of their problems over the last few years, when was CJ ever the cause of them? He's ripping the Bengals because he's pissed at the Bengals. I see no reason to assume if he came here he wouldn't be thrilled with the team (and his new contract)......or at least for the first 7 years....which is fine by me.

Also, for all of his gaudy stats, how many Super Bowls have the Bengals won with him? They haven't even been to the playoffs since 2005 while we've made two appearances in that same time frame. What makes you so sure he'll push us over the top? He'll improve the offense, but I go back to what I said about the other holes this team needs to address with the draft picks we have.

You can't be serious. You're not really going to pin the Bengals' failures on CJ? I think their absolutely pathetic defense and RB by committee has a lot more to do with their failures than CJ. On a terrible team he's managed the stats I noted before....to me, that makes his accomplishments that much more remarkable. Hell, I could go for 1,000 yards on the Colts or Patriots, but the Bungles?

There's also his much-publicized feud with Carson Palmer that culminated in a shouting match after an interception that happened because Stinko ran the wrong route. There was the shoving match/fist fight between him and the assistant coach. Given that we have a new coach and an organization that, while it's improving in terms of player personnel decisions, still has the tendency to be dysfunctional, in my opinion, isn't qualified to handle a personality like that of Johnson's.

Fist fight? Really? No exaggeration there? I hadn't heard about that one. And one instance of a wrong route and a shouting match with his qb? Ok, sorry, still haven't changed my mind.

It boils down to a fit and I just think mixing Johnson's personality with the organizational make-up as it is now -- not to mention the draft picks we'd have to give up -- would be dangerous for this team.

Fair opinion. Although I really don't understand what everyone expects to get with these draft picks. Does everyone really understand just how nearly impossible it will be to have even 3 of our first 5 picks end up being starters of three years or more? I'm a draft nut, and I look forward to it as much as the super bowl (actually more), but you've got to be realistic in your expectations of how these players are going to pan out.

[htownskinfan]

dont want him,dude just wants to get paid,we'd have to give up high draft picks to get him then sign him to an enormous contract to make him happy,no fkin thanks.I gaurantee you if cincy offered to redo his deal and pay him more money he'd be one happy motherfkin bengal and say how happy he is to be in cincy that he wanted to stay the whole time