Obama Clinches Democratic Nomination

[steveo395]

Originally Posted by Miller101

What Changes!??!?! Dude! Where have you been? Do you really expect me to believe that you have never listened to one of Obama's speeches? He's made a bunch of them! Hey, if you've been busy or whatever then...........You have an internet connection, just Google Obama and change. You'll have to type it in like this:

Obama Change

Then You'll get a entire list of them!

Your such a typical Obama supporter. Wow he makes a bunch of great speeches where he talks alot about change and hope, but doesn't actually say anything. He promises to solve everybodys problems and people love it. Then he'll say how he's different from other politicians, even though he isn't. The speeches are just one slogan after another and how Bush is bad and he's going to change, so he must be great. The few ideas he does have aren't new and they are not going to work. Bigger government is not the answer, which is what he wants to do.

Ever see one of his press conferences where he has to apologize for all the nut jobs he's associated with? He's not so articulate then.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by steveo395

Your such a typical Obama supporter. Wow he makes a bunch of great speeches where he talks alot about change and hope, but doesn't actually say anything. He promises to solve everybodys problems and people love it. Then he'll say how he's different from other politicians, even though he isn't. The speeches are just one slogan after another and how Bush is bad and he's going to change, so he must be great. The few ideas he does have aren't new and they are not going to work. Bigger government is not the answer, which is what he wants to do.

Obama is your typical politician in that he's promising a lot, trying to avoid giving detailed descriptions of how he will take us to the mountain top, etc. But if he's an ordinary politician in that regard, why do so many on the right seem to resent him? So what if he "talks big"....who cares? If all politicians "talk big," why is Obama being singled out for ridicule and being labeled someone with no substance?

Also, being an effective speaker, articulate, and charismatic is pretty damn important if you are the head of state. Your job is to inspire public confidence in government, communicate with foreign leaders, and push legislation through Congress. Like it or not, a great many people and politicians find Obama enormously appealing. He has the same "it" factor that Reagan and JFK had.

[mooby]

We can be political to an extent but let's keep it civil guys.

[SmootSmack]

It has to be about more than speeches. What is so different about Obama's platform from previous democratic platforms? What has Obama done in his brief time as a legislator to accomplish, or at the very least, mobilize change?

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It has to be about more than speeches. What is so different about Obama's platform from previous democratic platforms? What has Obama done in his brief time as a legislator to accomplish, or at the very least, mobilize change?

I think that is THE definitive question of the upcoming election.

Obama seems to me a lot of sizzle and no steak. The only thing that I can say with any degree of certainty that he does well is make speeches. Granted that's 180 degrees better than Bush, who finds difficulty pronouncing nuclear, but it's not enough to warrant a vote in November. I just don't see the reason for all of the hype. What I am afraid is going to happen, is all of the "hope" and "change" that's being bandied about as if it were a new concept is going to come crashing down upon all of these supposedly newly energized americans that are his base. What happens when all of these vague promises don't amount to anything more than the status quo? Even greater numbers of disillusioned citizens who will find it that much more difficult to get excited or hopeful about anything pertaining to government in the future.

While you can level much of the above at Clinton and McCain, I didn't hear nearly as much hyperbole coming out of their camps. It's going to get a whole lot uglier before it gets better. I'd like to see someone elected who has the fortitude to admit that upfront and then present a clear vision to get us through it. I think we've all had enough of empty promises at best and blatant lies at worst. I'd like to see something from Obama's past to indicate this isn't more of the same.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Granted that's 180 degrees better than Bush, who finds difficulty pronouncing nuclear,

Don't mis-underestimate Bush, it' part of his strategery.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Don't mis-underestimate Bush, it' part of his strategery.

At least we can be guaranteed that our next President won't flat out embarrass himself every time he opens his mouth. But then again Saturday Night Live just won't be the same.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

At least we can be guaranteed that our next President won't flat out embarrass himself every time he opens his mouth. But then again Saturday Night Live just won't be the same.

You're 100% right. LOL. Will Ferrell did a fantastic Bush impression, no one has done it better. I also agree on Obama or McCain, I don't think either will give SNL too much fuel for the fire.

[12thMan]

If McCain's strategy this Fall is to say Obama is all sizzle and no steak or that he gives great speeches, the GOP is in big trouble. People fail to see it's not that Obama simply gives great speeches, but he has the ability to connect that inspiration to tangible policy, ideas, and ideological differences between him and his opponent(s).

John McCain had better pound him on policy and experience, and not this gibberish about Obama only speaks well. And if experience was what people wanted from the Democratic nominee, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, and John Edwards would still be campaigning, would they not? And who can forget Bill Richardson's extensive resume? In terms of policy, there are vast differences between McCain and Obama. Plain and simple.

But to suggest that Senator Obama isn't electable or has empty ideas, is to somehow suggest that millions of Americans that voted for him, and the hundreds of others that endorsed him, are somehow delusional and caught up in the moment.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

But to suggest that Senator Obama isn't electable or has empty ideas, is to somehow suggest that millions of Americans that voted for him, and the hundreds of others that endorsed him, are somehow delusional and caught up in the moment.

I think a lot of people would suggest that indeed. I realize primaries are not the time for ideas since it is very difficult to differentiate yourself from an opponent you usually stand shoulder to shoulder with but Obama has been remarkably light on ideas other than "change" in general. Given the current environment that might be enough but I find no fault with people who wonder what exactly he thinks he is going to do when he never really says other than pretty general directions.

[70Chip]

Obama doesn't need issues, he's a "lightworker":

Is Obama an enlightened being? / Spiritual wise ones say: This sure ain't no ordinary politician. You buying it?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

Obama doesn't need issues, he's a "lightworker":

Is Obama an enlightened being? / Spiritual wise ones say: This sure ain't no ordinary politician. You buying it?

Holy crap. This guy thinks he Jesus.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Holy crap. This guy thinks he Jesus.

People continue to tell me otherwise and say that he's the anti-christ.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I think a lot of people would suggest that indeed. I realize primaries are not the time for ideas since it is very difficult to differentiate yourself from an opponent you usually stand shoulder to shoulder with but Obama has been remarkably light on ideas other than "change" in general. Given the current environment that might be enough but I find no fault with people who wonder what exactly he thinks he is going to do when he never really says other than pretty general directions.

My only response to this is he hasn't been anymore general than John McCain or even Clinton, who recently bowed out of the race. I think he's been general when he's had to be (larger rallys) and more specific (town hall meetings) in other settings.

Obama has been specific on his designs for Universal Healthcare, as well as the differences and disagreement(s) between his plan and Senator Clinton's. That plan and how he plans to fund it is outlined in great detail on his website, and was hashed out repeatedly during the debates.

Regarding the war in Iraq, which candidate(s) have been more specifc than the other regarding troop withdrawals or their plan to stay? I know that Clinton and Obama have both supported a phased down troop withdrawl with a deadline. John McCain, whom recently said he wanted troops out by 2013, never outlined specifically what that actually looks like in terms of phased down withdrawal.

On the issue of lobbying, I haven't heard one candidate speak more specifically and forcefully than Obama about their plan to change the culture of Washington and it's ties to federal lobbyist. In fact, he's already set the tone since becoming the nominee just a few days ago. The DNC, under Obama's direction, annonced they will no longer accept donations from Washington lobbyists and PACs. That's a huge development, that's change. But somehow it has managed to fly under the radar. The Democratic Party | Democratic Party Will No Longer Accept Washington Lobbyist Donations

The only point I'm making is after 22 televised debates, a lot of rhetoric, I would argue whether Obama or any of the other candidates, for that matter, have been particularly more vague and general than the other. I think his is highlighted more often due to his unique ability to draw record size crowds and stir emotion and excitiment among voters, perharps, since RFK.

[JWsleep]

It'll be Obama because it's very unlikely the party in power will hold the White House with a down economy, an unpopular war, and after holding the office for the last eight years. Obama has a savvy enough campaign staff to not mess up too bad, IMO. It's a very tough road for McCain, given the usual political trends.

As for politicians not being clear in speeches, promising too much, etc.: this is the nature of American politics and the politics of democracy in general. Nothing new here.