Joe2 Legacy2 will be?

[Hog1]

Nice work Miller, and Kope!
I think that if you could get JZ alone, he would echo many of these same sentiments. That he has inherited a "work in progress", unfinished by his predecessor. That he has inherited the building blocks of greatness.

[DarkKnight]

2nd stint a bust.

[JWsleep]

I agree that Gibbs 2 was way better than what went before it. And that's a big deal, no doubt. He did overhaul the roster, with some mixed results, though generally for the better. And he did deal with serious injury problems, not to mention the Taylor situation. Concerning Taylor, I don't think there's anyone else I'd rather have had at the helm during that incredibly difficult time than Joe Gibbs. So there's lots of positives.

But from the standpoint of what occurred on the football field (and yes, I know, that's not the only rubric), I still think it was a failure. The numbers are relatively clear, especially when you focus on the offense. And given JGs offensive performance in the first stint (see the 1991 team or the 1988 team, for example), if someone had asked you right at the beginning if below .500 ball with one of the weakest offenses in the league would be a success, you'd have said no way, and you'd probably have accused the guy of being a hater. So in that specific regard, I think it was a failure. In that time, the cow-roids have surged and the gints have won a Superbowl. Would you ever have thought 4 years ago that the gints would win a Superbowl before us?

In the final analysis, I think JG did a good job as team president and a less-than-stellar job as head coach. The rebuilding was a serious task, and we have him to thank for that (I agree that JZ would be the first to agree with that). But on the field it was not up to snuff. Given that massive expectations with Gibbs returning, that's a failure.

(Again, JG is among my football heroes. Just trying to evaluate things clearly after the fact.)

[Ruhskins]

I think Zorns performance this season will change a lot of opinions. If he does even a decent job (9-7?) then I would say that all those other things that Gibbs did would be consider a success. However, if Zorn tanks it, then Gibbs rebuilding would mean nothing methinks.

[Red Robert]

Long time no talk fella's

I would prefer to stay positive and think that in a few years time, we will all look back and say "Gibbs built the team to win it all and Zorn finished the job."

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

How can u have 2 legacies ??

[JWsleep]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

How can u have 2 legacies ??

Now there's something to think about!

[skinsfan69]

And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?

I'm with you on the "lowered expectations" (said in the sing songy voice used on MadTV's Lowered Expectations). But there's a definite reason for it, it's called "We averaged 7 wins a season" in the 11 seasons between Gibbs' coaching stints.

I think we're missing the genius of what Coach Gibbs did. He got Dan Snyder to see the folly of the big spending sprees, but its how he did it that's sick. Instead of coming in and saying, "That's not how we did it in my day" Coach Gibbs said "Fire up Redskins One!" You know Snyder still views 2000 as the "Lost Season," that if he had any coach other than Norv Turner then all those moves would have paid off, especially coming off the playoff push in '99. Well, Gibbs said "OK, I'll show you" and after '05 he allowed Snyder to crank up Redskin One and use his lucky pen to sign all the free agents he wanted, which then resulted in 5 wins and an offense best described as limited.

Nah, Gibbs 2.0 to me will be defined by the lesson he taught our owner. Gibbs showed Snyder that a team is not built overnight, that even legendary coaches can struggle, and that he should invest more in the draft and use free agency (and his checkbook) judiciously. And he taught all those lessons without ever once actually saying those things, he allowed Snyder the space to grow as an owner. And then, just to show that he still has it, he was somehow able to get the team to come together after it's best player was murdered in his home. Maybe on the field Gibbs was just ok, but overall, dude did the damn thing, and better than anybody else could have.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And another thing that bothers me is everyone says we went to the playoffs 2 out of the last 4 years. Yes, that is a fact. But we won ONE game. That's one playoff game in 4 years. Let's not get carried away here. Have our expectations sunk so low that we're happy to simply make the playoffs and go home after one game?

Had you watched between 1993 and 2004? Our franchise had sunk that low, we were becoming meaningless. And between 1988 and 1991, guess what we only won 1 playoff game then too.

EDIT: And for the record 1993-2003: 2 playoff appearance 1 win. That's all folks.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Had you watched between 1993 and 2004? Our franchise had sunk that low, we were becoming meaningless. And between 1988 and 1991, guess what we only won 1 playoff game then too.

EDIT: And for the record 1993-2003: 2 playoff appearance 1 win. That's all folks.

EXACTLY! But you've given us one playoff appearance too many, only made the playoffs in '99 during that stretch. So Gibbs 2.0 in that lens is a resurgence!

[CRedskinsRule]

I simply meant 2 games, not in separate years. Wouldn't want anyone thinking we had 2 playoff seasons

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I simply meant 2 games, not in separate years. Wouldn't want anyone thinking we had 2 playoff seasons

My bad, didn't mean to jump out signifying and all. - ode to Dolemite

[sportscurmudgeon]

Someone said he doesn't care about wins and losses as long as the Skins are a hard-nosed team that plays as if it cares.

Excuse me but in the NFL the ONLY things that matter are wins and losses.

If the Spurrier teams at 5-11 went out and played hard and banged opponents around, would you have like to keep him here for three more seasons of 5-11? Not many other fans would like that.

One other minor point with the rant that says "Gibbs 2.0" is not allowed to be called a failure:


Those teams he had from 1980 - 1990 were assembled by someone other than himself. Someone else handed him the talent that eventually manifested itself as Hall of Fame players and "The Hogs". So, if you want to excuse "Gibbs 2.0" because he had weak players when he showed up, then you also have to acknowledge that for the vast majority of "Gibbs 1.0" he had great players that where handed to him on a platter.