The Official Debate Thread (Round 1)

[saden1]

Horse shit eh? I'm okay with him saying that, what I'm not okay with is the pot calling the kettle black. First class wanker for sure.

[That Guy]

obama had a really good commercial during the skins game btw... just him talking to the camera about his economic plan (available on his website barackobama.com/plan or something) and about trickle down economics hasn't really worked (which has been shown before).

no name calling, no mud slinging, and it seemed pretty genuine, so props for that.

[saden1]

What is wrong with the Palin clips?

[firstdown]

The best part of the debate was when McCain was talking about the Russia/Georgia conflict. He started throwing out all this info on relationships of different groups and all this other stuff and when Obama was asked to reply he kind of said "Yea, what he said". It was obvious he had know clue what McCain was talking about.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

I've seen this posted and debated in several different threads. The argument that Obama's plan will only increase taxes on those making over $ 250K and 95% of taxpayers (actually 81% of households) would get a tax cut. However he has voted in the past to increase taxes on single taxpayers making as little as $ 42K and families making $ 90K. I don't care what his plan is, his voting record leads me to believe he'll increase taxes on a much larger scale than his "plan" says. Not to mention his proposed capital gains increases will affect many more people and small business.

Factcheck.org: McCain, Obama Both Got a Lot Wrong | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I've seen this posted and debated in several different threads. The argument that Obama's plan will only increase taxes on those making over $ 250K and 95% of taxpayers (actually 81% of households) would get a tax cut. However he has voted in the past to increase taxes on single taxpayers making as little as $ 42K and families making $ 90K. I don't care what his plan is, his voting record leads me to believe he'll increase taxes on a much larger scale than his "plan" says. Not to mention his proposed capital gains increases will affect many more people and small business.

Factcheck.org: McCain, Obama Both Got a Lot Wrong | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

No way. You don't think that Obama after he takes office will blame Bush for a bigger mess then raise taxes on even more people? Not Obama. Whats a voting record anyways.

[Beemnseven]

Here's the thing with the tax issue: Obama will raise taxes on rich people. We all know that, and he makes no bones about it. I don't like taxes raised on any income level -- I think taxes should be a flat rate for everyone, or there should be a national sales tax. Anything but what we have currently.

The problem is spending. Democrats are tax and spenders, while Republicans are borrow and spenders. As the great free market economist Milton Friedman once said, a tax cut without a corresponding cut in spending is not a tax cut.

So while McCain wants to lower taxes but lobby hard for this $700 billion bailout package, or continue spending $10 billion a month for Iraq, in the long run our national debt continues to pile up, the Treasury simply prints more money, and we, the great unwashed are hurt even more because our money becomes more and more worthless. That's why the containers of coffee, ice cream, milk and other groceries decreases while the price remains the same or increases.

In essence, we're paying more up front for all the spending with democrats. With republicans, you're passing the bill to your kids, and the purchasing power of your dollar is diminished.

Imagine if every two weeks, your paycheck saw a direct hit with each and every spending measure enacted by government? Suppose the $10 billion we're sending to Iraq was taken out of your paycheck right now, up front?

This bullsh*t war would be over in a heartbeat.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Here's the thing with the tax issue: Obama will raise taxes on rich people. We all know that, and he makes no bones about it. I don't like taxes raised on any income level -- I think taxes should be a flat rate for everyone, or there should be a national sales tax. Anything but what we have currently.

We agree here, I favor the FairTax.

The problem is spending. Democrats are tax and spenders, while Republicans are borrow and spenders. As the great free market economist Milton Friedman once said, a tax cut without a corresponding cut in spending is not a tax cut.

True. Unfortunately the Republican in the White House isn't a fiscal conservative, yet he claims he is.

Imagine if every two weeks, your paycheck saw a direct hit with each and every spending measure enacted by government? Suppose the $10 billion we're sending to Iraq was taken out of your paycheck right now, up front?

This bullsh*t war would be over in a heartbeat.

We differ on the war so I won't go over that again. But, interest on the national debt, Social Security, Medicare & Medicaid are a FAR greater chunk of the federal budget than defense. I wouldn't mind paying a bit more in taxes if I could be 100% assured that increased taxes would be used to fix these giant problems that are next on the radar screen a few years down the road when they get closer to critical mass. But we all know that once $$$ winds up inside the beltway it could go anywhere.