Liberal Supermajority

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Thought this thread deserved a bump since it's now effectively happened with Franken winning the Senate seat in MN.

Let's look at the original predictions from the WSJ, and where we are right now:

WSJ predicts: Medicare for all
Current Situation: Universal Health Care being pushed through Congress, likely approved without bi-partisan support in late summer/early fall.

WSJ predicts: More government control of private economy
Current Situation: Gov't already strong-arms bankruptcies of Chrysler and GM leaving private investors with virtually nothing. Gov't control of GM is 60%, Canadian gov't 12%, IAW 17%. Bail-out $$$ has given the federal government deeper control into the financial industry, to the point of determining executive pay.

WSJ predicts: Union supremacy
Current Situation: Employee Free Choice Act will likely pass easily.
President Tells Unions Organizing Act Will Pass - WSJ.com

WSJ predicts: Cap and Trade (Tax/Regulate)
Current Situation: Crap...ooops...Cap & Trade narrowly passed the House. The Obama Admin will likely use Chicago-style politics to force passage in the Senate on a party line vote. Our only salvation from this will be either Dems in blue-collar states or the two Independents. EPA suppresses Climate Change report that questions (correctly) the junk science of Global Warming.

WSJ predicts: Voting Rights will be stacked towards Dems, led by ACORN.
Current Situation: Bureau of Census will allow ACORN workers to be census-takers. Stimulus bill provided over $ 4B in funding that ACORN is eligible to receive.

Great summary of what would happen with a Dem supermajority IMO:
"In both 1933 and 1965, liberal majorities imposed vast expansions of government that have never been repealed, and the current financial panic may give today's left another pretext to return to those heydays of welfare-state liberalism. Americans voting for "change" should know they may get far more than they ever imagined."

It's not much of a prediction if all they're doing is reading off of the Democrat's agenda book. It's amazing what is being passed off as insightful predictions these days.


p.s. Don't tell anyone this folks but you too can get a piece of that 4 billion dollar pie.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's not much of a prediction if all they're doing is reading off of the Democrat's agenda book. It's amazing what is being passed off as insightful predictions these days.

This article was an attempt at educating the "uninformed". You and I knew what would happen, but I believe a large segment of those who voted for Obama didn't realize the real consequences

p.s. Don't tell anyone this folks but you too can get a piece of that 4 billion dollar pie.

I'm pretty confident unless you're a director/board member of a left-wing organization already "in bed" with the Administration you're not getting anywhere near that $ 4B.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

This article was an attempt at educating the "uninformed". You and I knew what would happen, but I believe a large segment of those who voted for Obama didn't realize the real consequences


I'm pretty confident unless you're a director/board member of a left-wing organization already "in bed" with the Administration you're not getting anywhere near that $ 4B.

I think they weighed the consequence of electing another republican vs a democrat pretty well. What were the uninformed thinking? "Another republican? Oh hell no, I'm not going to give those mofo another chance to do more damage." And when Obama f'up they'll say the same thing about the democrats.


That's the misinformation bs out there about ACORN.You just have to have a legit NGO and apply for the funds. Let's leave the conspiracy theories for 70 shall we.

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Thought this thread deserved a bump since it's now effectively happened with Franken winning the Senate seat in MN.."

the people of mn that voted for franken have to be,HAVE TO BE the most retarded people in the entire world.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by wolfeskins

the people of mn that voted for franken have to be,HAVE TO BE the most retarded people in the entire world.

Well, they also voted in Jesse Ventura, so they can't be that bad.

I think the election of Al Franken says more about Norm Coleman than it does about the voters.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Well, they also voted in Jesse Ventura, so they can't be that bad.

I think the election of Al Franken says more about Norm Coleman than it does about the voters.

you beat me to it. good post

[wolfeskins]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Well, they also voted in Jesse Ventura, so they can't be that bad.

I think the election of Al Franken says more about Norm Coleman than it does about the voters.

you might be on to something there. i really don't know to much about norm coleman, i just think frankin is a total idiot.

[SmootSmack]

Who would have ever thought Al Franken would wield this much power

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Who would have ever thought Al Franken would wield this much power

"I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it, people like me."

[Redskins8588]

Maybe not directly but to pay a person $40 -$60/hour just to sit there and watch parts go buy is way too much money. Then to promise that person the wages and insurance when they retire is insane. If you look at and compare the union workers in the ford, gm, and chrysler plants to the honda, hyundi, and toyota plants you will see that the workers in the big three have it much easier. I mean for christ's sakes chrysler wanted to take $20 away from their workers just to put them on the same level as the honda, toyota, and hyundi workers and the union said "NO". Even with the $20 decrease they still were making $25-$40 per hour. I bet that helped out their cause not to go bankrupted. Just recently a transfercase company in Syracuse, NY is shutting down because of the union. The workers voted down a contract 4 times after the company gave each worker $77,000 to help with the decrease of the workers pay by $9. $77,000 just given to you, and yet the people still vote down a contract between the company and the union. Now their will be around 5,000 people with out a job and the union is the middle man. I bet that helps out the economy also...

One more thing unions are why you have to overpay for a vehicle by $10,000 to $15,000...

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Maybe not directly but to pay a person $40 -$60/hour just to sit there and watch parts go buy is way too much money. Then to promise that person the wages and insurance when they retire is insane. If you look at and compare the union workers in the ford, gm, and chrysler plants to the honda, hyundi, and toyota plants you will see that the workers in the big three have it much easier. I mean for christ's sakes chrysler wanted to take $20 away from their workers just to put them on the same level as the honda, toyota, and hyundi workers and the union said "NO". Even with the $20 decrease they still were making $25-$40 per hour. I bet that helped out their cause not to go bankrupted. Just recently a transfercase company in Syracuse, NY is shutting down because of the union. The workers voted down a contract 4 times after the company gave each worker $77,000 to help with the decrease of the workers pay by $9. $77,000 just given to you, and yet the people still vote down a contract between the company and the union. Now their will be around 5,000 people with out a job and the union is the middle man. I bet that helps out the economy also...

One more thing unions are why you have to overpay for a vehicle by $10,000 to $15,000...

Really? You make it sound all fun and games at plant GM. Honestly though, when you disrespect them in such manner you squander any credibility you have. There's more than meets the eye but why bother with details when you can just toss numbers around without citation. I smell the foul stench of hearsay painted with manure.

Pssst, the average worker salary at GM is not 40-60 dollars an hour as you have state. The average worker's hourly rate is $69 which includes benefits and legacy retiree cost and is expected to go down to $62 in 2010. The actual average take home pay is ~$30 which is comparative to that of Toyota and et al.


Help corporate America, support Universal Health Care.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by saden1

Really? You make it sound all fun and games at plant GM. Honestly though, when you disrespect them in such manner you squander any credibility you have. There's more than meets the eye but why bother with details when you can just toss numbers around without citation. I smell the foul stench of hearsay painted with manure.

Pssst, the average worker salary at GM is not 40-60 dollars an hour as you have state. The average worker's hourly rate is $69 which includes benefits and legacy retiree cost and is expected to go down to $62 in 2010. The actual average take home pay is ~$30 which is comparative to that of Toyota and et al.


Help corporate America, support Universal Health Care.

Either way your telling me that it ok for people to make that money for not doing anything, not being a skilled labor? What America do you live in? Are you part of a union? I am only speaking of the UAW, and what I have seen in these plants it is nothing more than f*<king highway robbery going on...

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Redskins8588

Either way your telling me that it ok for people to make that money for not doing anything, not being a skilled labor? What America do you live in? Are you part of a union? I am only speaking of the UAW, and what I have seen in these plants it is nothing more than f*<king highway robbery going on...

Here i was thinking that before GM's decline they manufactured 9.35 million car in 2007 vs 9.5 million cars that Toyota built. With relatively the same number of employees too.

Believe it or not but you don't know what you're talking about and I am more than happy to inform you.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by saden1

Here i was thinking that before GM's decline they manufactured 9.35 million car in 2007 vs 9.5 million cars that Toyota built. With relatively the same number of employees too.

Believe it or not but you don't know what you're talking about and I am more than happy to inform you.

Whatever union lover, next your going to tell me that any kid that shows up to an athletic event should get a trophy just for trying. Yeah that's a good way to teach work ethic, and pamper the lazy. I would love to see an union employee try to work in a non-union factory, the key word there is "work," you won't find that in any union dictionary. Then you will follow up with the education system needs to eliminate physical education just because little Johnny or little Suzy may not be as good as others and their feelings may be hurt...

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Here i was thinking that before GM's decline they manufactured 9.35 million car in 2007 vs 9.5 million cars that Toyota built. With relatively the same number of employees too.

Believe it or not but you don't know what you're talking about and I am more than happy to inform you.

Before busting 8588s chops you probably should've done a little more homework. He is much closer to being correct on this point than you. While the worldwide sales and employee numbers are the same you forgot the most important number....I know this is hard for a lefty to comprehend....profits. GM = - $2B, Toyota = + $ 13B.

You should also read this article from AutoObserver/Edmunds, a non-politcal source:

So, Toyota’s No. 1. What Now GM? - Auto Observer

The article mentions exactly what 8588 is talking about. From the article:
North America: GM’s Challenge
Still, North America is GM’s home base, and the carmaker has its work cut out for it here.
It’s still got too many employees -– both salaried and hourly –- in its ranks. Clearly, GM needs a favorable contract with the UAW this fall and could use some help on health care issues, as the entire country could.
But it’s also got bloated ranks of salaried employees, many of the complacent and adding no value; in fact, they may well be hindering value. Only yesterday, hours after the “Toyota surpasses GM” announcement, I sat at a high school sporting event with a GM employee. He was telling me about co-workers just putting in their time until they were offered a buyout or were due for retirement. One, that very afternoon, was seeking out a quiet spot for an afternoon siesta, he told me. GM, get rid of them!

I don't have any experience in the auto industry, but I have extensive experience in the telecom/networking industry and I can tell you with 100% certainty, whenever I was pricing a project that involved union workers I knew my cost would be significantly higher, the rules/regs would be much more difficult to navigate, and the customer would ultimately be at the mercy of the "union rules". I always avoided using union labor after a couple of bad experiences.

Were the unions a good thing back in the first half of the 1900s, absolutely. Today the free market is the best way to determine wages and pricing. That's why a vast majority of US workers are non-union, and companies cannot be competitive with union workers. You and the left may not like it, but that's reality.