Our WRs in 2009... My Thoughts

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Skins4L

I didnt state the obvious... Our O-Line problems are the direct reason we couldnt get the passing game in rhythm. But i can only believe in what ive seen. Moss, Housh, Thomas looks like a great 1 2 3 to me. I dont mind Randle El on the roster either, hed be able to do what he did in Pittsburgh as a Role Player solely.. Situationally the 3rd Slot, 4th Slot, and handle special teams. If we can get Houshy cheap... and improve our O-Line in the offseason.. Wed be passing with the best next year.

I actually think Brandon Jones would be a better fit. Not that I'm endorsing any move to acquire another receiver. But if I had to pick from that list, I'd take Jones. He's young, tall, athletic and probably much less expensive than Housh. I can see Housh failing as the #1 on another team... much like Peerless Price with the Falcons. I could be wrong though.

[Skins4L]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I actually think Brandon Jones would be a better fit. Not that I'm endorsing any move to acquire another receiver. But if I had to pick from that list, I'd take Jones. He's young, tall, athletic and probably much less expensive than Housh. I can see Housh failing as the #1 on another team... much like Peerless Price with the Falcons. I could be wrong though.

I agree. Lets just say for sh*ts n giggles... Housh gets signed... Id hold him at the 2, im sure his presence alone would free up Santana STILL at the 1.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

This is absurd. Our WR's looked just fine before the offensive line broke down. While not an elite unit by a mile or three, they are good enough to be successful when the rest of the offense is functioning correctly, as we saw earlier in the season. There are too many more glaring needs to be addressed on this team before we can even think about bringing in another wideout.

Moreover, I really do expect more from at least one of the rookies next year, and I think it's conceivable they could all contribute a lot more. Regardless though, when we drafted 3 receivers in the second round last year Vinnie effectively made our bed for the next couple seasons.

Our receivers looked good when?

I know Santana Moss played well early when teams played soft & didn't cover him over the top that much...

But Randel El was great? Thomas? Kelly? Thrash? huh?

It's so funny that it's ALL about our O-Line... without anyone giving credence to the fact that really, the rest of the league figured out Zorn's SHORT WCO passing game and started playing much closer with their DBs and Safeties.

I mean, does anyone else remember the shirt slant to Moss, the WR screen to Moss working really well ealry on beut never again after about week 6-7?

Plus, the DBs starting playing tight off the lines, knowing our receivers can't get space on their own or get off of jams & that the would be running short-mid range routes... Suddenly, Campbell doesn't have big windows to throw into and the defense is closer to the line of scrimmage, taking away the 10 yard runs Portis was running off with regularity.

The only game late where the opposing defense played soft was the Seahawks game. They played soft, no blitzes, and we were in 3 WR sets (especially the 2nd half) and Portis was getting CHUNKS of yards because the defense Seattle put out there facing a 3 WR set. The line wasn't so horrible that day... and I can tell you our receivers weren't great that day either....

Yes, our line isn't the HOGS of the 80's, but the are not a glaring weakness like our WR corp.

Also... When I started the thread, I said that no way in heck should we draft a receiver any time soon, I threw out the idea of Houshmandzadeh as he will be a UFA. He's the only one I'd go out and pay for in this years FA class... otherwise, my point was, that we have to HOPE that Thomas gets smarter or Kelly has knee transplants... in order to see any real difference next year in the pass game (and our line will look "terrible" to everyone else again) ... lol

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Ok, you know, the more I have thought about why our offense is just NOT helping us over the top, I started to realize something...

Wide Receiver is STILL the most glaring weakness on this football team, over O-Line & D-Line.

I am kind of combining thoughts I put on other various threads, but here are some points I want to make:

What we HAVE at receiver:

* One short, above-average receiver who was doubled for the MAJORITY of the season. (Moss)
* One short receiver who really isn't a "receiver" that runs crisp routes, escapes jams, and is finding holes in the D. (Randel El)
* One “tall” receiver who only started one year as a WR in college and doesn't seem very bright as the coaches & QB didn't REALLY trust him being out there as a target on plays. (Thomas)
* One “tall” receiver with the knees of a 37 year-old offensive lineman and again, not too bright with the playbook as he was healthy enough at times and still was INACTIVE. (Kelly)
* TWO really good receiving tight ends (Cooley & Davis) playing in a West Coast Offense that doesn't exactly use the Gibbs two TE set that often. (lol) It's SUPPOSED to be a 3 WR set most times

Why this was a HUGE issue for us in 2008:

Our Wide Receivers made EVERYONE else on offense look worse. Think about many of the sacks/runs by Campbell had this year and you notice that many times he would plant and hold or pump fake, because no one was open down field. I really do think this was the reason for at LEAST a quarter of the sacks this season, which made our O-Line look bad.

Our running game suffered at the end of the season because the rest of the league figured out that they needed to just play up at the line, jamming Moss/Randel El and cover Moss over the top as well as the simple fact that EVERYONE figured out that our offense WAS the run game and started playing up tight with linebackers & safties with no fear of our receivers. If we had even an AVERAGE passing offense (that included stretching the field), the run game would come back.

Why this is STILL a huge issue for 2009:

Basically, I am pretty sure we are going to have the same well below average WRs as this year (because I just don't see Cerrato going there again).

We have to hope that:
* One gets smart quick (Thomas)
* One gets Earnest Ainsley to HHHEEEAAAALL (!) those knees (Kelly)
* Zorn figures out how to use TWO TE's in the WCO (Davis).

My Opinion:

Imagine if we were to do something at WR this offseason? People would flip out after taking 2 in the 2nd round last year.

I know I may get reamed for this but, I REALLY think that we might be well served to go after a T.J. “Whoseyourmamma” Houshmandzadeh. Really.

If we have him & Moss as 1 & 2, then Randel El/Thomas/Kelly can battle it out for the 3rd receiver in our 3 man sets. The main thing is... we'd have a REAL wide RECEIVER that knows how to run routes, has great hands and is PROVEN in the league. I also think that it would have a TREMENDOUS effect on Santana Moss' success. Think about it. Since he's been here, there has been absolutely NO threat on the other side of the field at WR... it could only open things back up for him. And our O-Linemen look SOOOO much better when receivers are open, Campbell is getting rid of the ball & not holding it, and all of this softens the defense for the run game.

I know that I'm gonna be called crazy for saying spend money on him over a lineman, but I think our entire draft should be focused on the O& D-Lines and that Samuels/Kendall/Rabach/Thomas/Jansen/Heyer can be effective for another year until Rinehart & whoever we draft get ready.

What are your thoughts on our WR crew for 2009? Who will line up for us? Who should? Do you have faith that Thomas & Kelly will help us win next year?

This is Vinny C logic. Games are won on the line of scrimage...until our front office starts thinking that way we will never have sustained success.

[Skins n Vols]

It would be absurd to draft a WR in 2009. We need to focus on O-line, D-line, and maybe a LB in the later rounds with Fletch getting older and MW falling off.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Skins n Vols

It would be absurd to draft a WR in 2009. We need to focus on O-line, D-line, and maybe a LB in the later rounds with Fletch getting older and MW falling off.

I agree, draft should go to rebuilding the O line, a LB, and a CB for depth. I do think making a play for TJ would be good though via FA. Guy is a gamer stuck on a crappy team. Trade Randle El if need be for more picks, but I think the idea of acquiring TJ isn't so crazy.

[redskins5044]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

I agree, draft should go to rebuilding the O line, a LB, and a CB for depth. I do think making a play for TJ would be good though via FA. Guy is a gamer stuck on a crappy team. Trade Randle El if need be for more picks, but I think the idea of acquiring TJ isn't so crazy.

randle el isnt tradable

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by redskins5044

randle el isnt tradable

That stinks, didn't know that. I like Randle El, but he might be the only one that would be worth anything in terms of trade bait. I guess only by trading down we will get more picks, but we do need high round linemen, so there goes the more picks plan.

[Trample the Elderly]

We could've used another OL man and one less WR in the last draft but hindsight is 20/20.
Don't use another draft pick for another WR whatever you do. At least not this year. TJ would be good if we can get him at a moderate price. It seems to me that the more money they spend on a guy the worse he does. I don't see the point in keeping ARE if we can get something for him besides dead cap if there is any.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

We could've used another OL man and one less WR in the last draft but hindsight is 20/20.
Don't use another draft pick for another WR whatever you do. At least not this year. TJ would be good if we can get him at a moderate price. It seems to me that the more money they spend on a guy the worse he does. I don't see the point in keeping ARE if we can get something for him besides dead cap if there is any.

Receivers can be deceiving. It's one of the most situational positions there is. Did we not learn from Lloyd? Remember Peerless Price? How about all the receivers Favre made look good over the years (Javon Walker, Antonio Freeman) or Brady (Branch). Hell, even Coles didn't pan out.... and oh yeah, Randle El. "Good" WRs go to other teams all of the time and under-produce. Develop the young guys. Anyone that plays Fantasy Football knows that year 3 is a big year for many wide-outs. Guys go from 300 yard seasons to 1200 yard seasons every year. Kelly and/or Thomas could be future studs.

[44Deezel]

The receivers are fine. Zorn needs to find ways to better utilize the backs & TEs, protect the QB and develop either Thomas OR Kelley (hopefully both). They have much bigger needs elsewhere.

Remember how crappy the Falcons receivers were when Vick was their QB? Remember all the Vick apologists saying he had no one credible to throw to? Remember all the talk of TO going to the Falcons and how that would improve Vick's numbers?

Well those same WRs are there now and look at what they did this year. Roddy White's a pro-bowler. What's different? Hmmm...

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

The receivers are fine. Zorn needs to find ways to better utilize the backs & TEs, protect the QB and develop either Thomas OR Kelley (hopefully both). They have much bigger needs elsewhere.

Remember how crappy the Falcons receivers were when Vick was their QB? Remember all the Vick apologists saying he had no one credible to throw to? Remember all the talk of TO going to the Falcons and how that would improve Vick's numbers?

Well those same WRs are there now and look at what they did this year. Roddy White's a pro-bowler. What's different? Hmmm...

Whats different ... is the QB! They don't have new linemen.

Are you saying get rid of Campbell?

If you watched the Playoff game today they showed that their line gave up 47 sacks last year and 17 this year... and the line says its all Matt Ryan for getting the ball out quickly like he is supposed to.

I think Campbell wants to get the ball out quickly, but doesn;t want to throw into tight coverage and get a pick. When receivers aren't open its hard to run a pass offense.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Whats different ... is the QB! They don't have new linemen.

Are you saying get rid of Campbell?

If you watched the Playoff game today they showed that their line gave up 47 sacks last year and 17 this year... and the line says its all Matt Ryan for getting the ball out quickly like he is supposed to.

I think Campbell wants to get the ball out quickly, but doesn;t want to throw into tight coverage and get a pick. When receivers aren't open its hard to run a pass offense.

I hope we can do right by the line, or next season will be a repeat of this season.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Whats different ... is the QB! They don't have new linemen.

Are you saying get rid of Campbell?

If you watched the Playoff game today they showed that their line gave up 47 sacks last year and 17 this year... and the line says its all Matt Ryan for getting the ball out quickly like he is supposed to.

I think Campbell wants to get the ball out quickly, but doesn;t want to throw into tight coverage and get a pick. When receivers aren't open its hard to run a pass offense.

Kind of. I said it before, 156 yards in a meaningless game is inexplicable. Who cares about INTs in that case? Open or not, let 'er rip. The receivers did have the dropsies, but Campbell made some bad passes as well (ARE was open on a bomb and Campbell overthrew him). Campbell had plenty of time all day as well. I still think Kelly or Thomas will step up and ARE can move into the 3rd slot. No need to shop for WRs.

[GusFrerotte]

Tj would be a great move, and I bet you could get him for a decent price also. He has to be tired of the BS in Cincy by now. At some point these guys do want a legacy, meaning a ring. He has no hope of that with Ocho Cinco and the oft injured Palmer. Marv Lewis sucks as a HC. Snyder did well in not giving him our HC position.