McNabb, Warner, and the Hall of Fame

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Aikman's numbers don't tell the whole story. He could have been a gunslinger in an offense that wasn't so run heavy. And at the end of the day 3 rings gets him in easily.

I agree 100%. If he would've been in a passing offense his numbers would've been insane. Quick release, powerful accurate arm, good field vision.... he had all the tools to be right up there with the best.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Aikman's numbers don't tell the whole story. He could have been a gunslinger in an offense that wasn't so run heavy. And at the end of the day 3 rings gets him in easily.

That's the difference between the Air Coryell and WCO, one is run heavy and the other pass heavy. Aikman was in the run heavy offense and so was Art Monk and unfortunately that's what delayed his entrance into the HOF because of the lack of "numbers". My feeling is that having "nice stats" is what gets people into the HOF which is a bunch of shit. If McNabb gets in, so should Theismann.

[Redskins247]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

That's the difference between the Air Coryell and WCO, one is run heavy and the other pass heavy. Aikman was in the run heavy offense and so was Art Monk and unfortunately that's what delayed his entrance into the HOF because of the lack of "numbers". My feeling is that having "nice stats" is what gets people into the HOF which is a bunch of shit. If McNabb gets in, so should Theismann.

My thoughts exactly! McNabb has been no better than Theismann...in my opinion. Imagine if Gibbs would have had Theismann longer. Warner's thumb injury definitely took years from him...otherwise I think he'd be a lock.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

That's the difference between the Air Coryell and WCO, one is run heavy and the other pass heavy. Aikman was in the run heavy offense and so was Art Monk and unfortunately that's what delayed his entrance into the HOF because of the lack of "numbers". My feeling is that having "nice stats" is what gets people into the HOF which is a bunch of shit. If McNabb gets in, so should Theismann.

Theismann in the HOF?? No way. IMO I think McNabb is a little better than JT. JT was a full time starter for about 7 1/2 to 8 years and 4 of those years he was about as average as it gets. And during those average years we never made the playoffs, he never made the team better or could not carry a team like McNabb does. 82, 83 and 84 were his best years and 3 good seasons doesn't get you in. In 85 when he broke his leg he was playing pretty bad and Gibbs refused to bench him. But maybe he'd get more of a look if we win that 83 SB cause he was the QB of one of the best offenses of all time.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Theismann in the HOF?? No way. IMO I think McNabb is a little better than JT. JT was a full time starter for about 7 1/2 to 8 years and 4 of those years he was about as average as it gets. And during those average years we never made the playoffs, he never made the team better or could not carry a team like McNabb does. 82, 83 and 84 were his best years and 3 good seasons doesn't get you in. In 85 when he broke his leg he was playing pretty bad and Gibbs refused to bench him. But maybe he'd get more of a look if we win that 83 SB cause he was the QB of one of the best offenses of all time.

Let's see Joey T. played in 2 SB, won 1 lost 1, was league MVP the year they lost to the Raiders (1983-4 season) and was the QB of a record scoring team which broke the all time record at the time. Plus Joey T. returned punts .

What has McNabb done besides good stats, 1 SB (3 int's) many playoff loses, no league MVP (runner up 1 year).

[GTripp0012]

If McNabb wins this season AND wins next season, he gets in under the winners clause, which basically says that you can't keep a multiple time SB winner out of the Hall.

I also think that's stupid for the same reason London Fletcher can't get voted to the pro bowl, but it definately exists.

Warner's in right now on merit, and I think winning the title this year makes him a stone cold lock. He'll get in even if he loses this week, IMO. I know there are no multiple time SB winning QBs left outside of the Hall, but what about multiple time MVPs?

[GTripp0012]

I agree with dmek that on merit of his ability alone, Aikman is no where near a Hall of Famer. Of course, by the same criteria, Elway and Bradshaw are pretty borderline.

I'm okay with the Hall of Fame including lesser players whose teams accomplished so much under their leadership, as long as we don't make them out to be some sort of Manning/Marino type martyr.

[44ever]

so who get HOF? Do you have to be equal or better than Marino???
Does P. Manning get in? Is he better than Marino?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44ever

so who get HOF? Do you have to be equal or better than Marino???
Does P. Manning get in? Is he better than Marino?

No, of course not. Being one of the very best players of your era at your postion is the criteria I always use.

Compared to Young, and later Favre, Aikman doesn't really hold up in the production category. But the three Super Bowl are automatic.

I just wish they would put the whole TEAM into the hall of fame. Why exclude some players who played on a three time super bowl champion? They all won it together, why aren't they all recognized together?

[firstdown]

Come on people McNabb PUKED on his center in the biggest game in sports and that by itself excludes him.

[saden1]

BTW, what are we talking here? "First ballot HoF", "will get in few years after eligibility", "will get in eventually?"

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by saden1

BTW, what are we talking here? "First ballot HoF", "will get in few years after eligibility", "will get in eventually?"

I think the assumption with players that 'deserve' it are players that should get in at some point, but that is an important distinction.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by saden1

BTW, what are we talking here? "First ballot HoF", "will get in few years after eligibility", "will get in eventually?"

Hadn't really thought about that. Pick your poison.

[djnemo65]

Warner has a great chance because he not only won a Superbowl (and counting) but also captured two MVP titles, which puts him in very elite company (I know Manning and Favre are the only players ever to win more than two). I think a Superbowl appearance this year would cement a spot in Canton for Warner.

McNabb is more difficult to evaluate. He captained some excellent teams and put up huge numbers but he choked in a lot of big games. He was never at any point in his career considered one of the best 3-5 players or even QB's in the league and, while he dominated QB play in the NFC for four years or so, it was during a time when the NFC was considered to be vastly inferior to the AFC. Throw in a 3 interception performance in the Superbowl - as well as a nerve-induced on field vomiting - and you have a borderline guy.

I think this year is huge for him. Nevertheless, McNabb is the kind of guy who could get in in 20 years even if he doesn't get in right away, because his numbers are going to age well.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Warner has a great chance because he not only won a Superbowl (and counting) but also captured two MVP titles, which puts him in very elite company (I know Manning and Favre are the only players ever to win more than two). I think a Superbowl appearance this year would cement a spot in Canton for Warner.

McNabb is more difficult to evaluate. He captained some excellent teams and put up huge numbers but he choked in a lot of big games. He was never at any point in his career considered one of the best 3-5 players or even QB's in the league and, while he dominated QB play in the NFC for four years or so, it was during a time when the NFC was considered to be vastly inferior to the AFC. Throw in a 3 interception performance in the Super bowl - as well as a nerve-induced on field vomiting - and you have a borderline guy.

I think this year is huge for him. Nevertheless, McNabb is the kind of guy who could get in in 20 years even if he doesn't get in right away, because his numbers are going to age well.

Oh so now a HOFer can't have a upset stomach?
J/k