Zorn seeing the same things we do

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SkinzzFan

Amen to that. I also can't stand when guys say "my second favorite team is (fill in the blank)"...WTF is that? You can't have a "fall back" team. You fully devote yourself to your team or you're not a true fan, period. I admit, I cheer for two teams each week, the Redskins and the Cowboys opponent but that's for obvious reasons.

Sorry, I just feel strongly about being a fan of 1 team for the long haul, rain or shine!

HAIL!!

I don't have a problem with a second favorite team. But I love the Skins win or lose. 35 years now. Always will. When I became a Skins fan it was because my dad was. He asked me if I knew what I was getting into. Now I know what he meant. Too late now. Go Skins!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've never understood people that switch teams. I had a friend when I was kid and at the time we were both big Celtics fans. All of a sudden one day he said he was switching to the Lakers. We all gave him a ton of shit for it.

If you want to switch fine, go ahead. Don't let the door hit ya.

j/k

[CRedskinsRule]

The Bronco's have always been my favorite AFC team, and when I lived in Colorado (late 90's/early 2000's) it was SOOOOOO tempting to just let the Skins fan in me fade away, but it hung around, and now that I'm back in Md. I can't imagine rooting with the same emotion for a different team.

[SmootSmack]

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

[cobracai1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

Great info. I understand all of the frustration. It has been awhile since the glory days of RFK but cmon. Once a skins fan always a skins fan. Badgering "your" team is fine as long as its your team. Just because we are in a slump (albeit a pretty long one), there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I like Zorn and I like a lot of our guys. Lets keep on track and I think it'll be alright.

HTTR

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

Fair enough on the first point. On the second one, who exactly is "pretty much everyone" Other owners don't necessarily think Snyder is one of the worst, players don't, coaches don't. Plus we're not talking about bailing on the Redskins and jumping into your DeLorean to go back in time to 1998 and the Broncos Super Bowl, we're talking about now.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

For arguments sake, McDaniels was an offensive coordinator on a team that went to the superbowl last year who has been considered and has interviewed for MULTIPLE HC jobs....Zorn was a QB coach who hadnt interviewed ANYWHERE ELSE for even an OC job, let alone a HC position. His own team didnt consider him good enough to be OC when its HC retired.

The Broncos owner fired a HC whod been with the team a decade and taken the team to superbowls and the departing HC called him the best owner in football....our owner is viewed as one of the worst in the league by pretty much everyone....

There are big differences between the situations.

Didn't Gibbs also speak highly of Snyder? DS has cleaned up his image of late except among a (i think) small percentage of the fan base and media who will always see him as he was when he first bought the team.

[grantarchy]

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by grantarchy

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

I get what your saying about loyalty of the coaches, players, ect... And yes times have changed. And I guess the old school fans will stick with their teams while the newer fans will not feel the sense of loyalty to a team for life. Probably because of the lack of loyalty of the NFL as a whole. I'm glad I had the pleasure of being a old school fan from a time when you can buy a favorite players jersey and wear it more than 2 years. When players and coaches loved their team as much as the fans did.

I'll always be a Redskins fan!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by grantarchy

I think it started for me when Snyder brought Deion Sanders to our team. I mean ... Deion Sanders? How on earth could I possibly root for a team with one of the most loathed Cowboys of all time? It was bad enough when we hired Norv Turner. Those were both horrible to me and really signaled the beginning of the erosion of time honored rivalries. I mean, that would be like Jerry Jones signing Darrell Green to close out his career ... can you imagine it? Does it make you shudder like there is a disturbance in the force? To me, Snyder has slowly been running the franchise into the ground, eroding loyalty by signing any big name and not growing the team through the draft. I will always love the Skins, but I really truly believe that there is no end to mediocrity in sight with Snyder at the helm, and sometimes it's very difficult to support their awful handling of the team. And did you read that he laid a ton of long term employees off? All this while having the 3rd most valuable sports franchise in the world -- where is the loyalty? Bah.

But, that's the way the NFL is run now. Players switch teams and go to hated rivals, coaches go and coach hated rivals, but fans, no, we're not supposed to ever switch allegiances despite the pile of crap we're being fed. If they switched the teams of Dallas and Washington we'd be expected to root for the likes of Romo and TO. And the owners would probably do it because everything is a commodity now. What a joke. Gibbs was probably the last guy to coach the Skins who really bled Red. It is a different era, and not a particulary great one in my opinion. I mean, when you have more Pittsburgh fans than Skins fans at a home game, something is wrong. That never would have happened in the days of RFK. To me it's not about sucking, although we do, it's why we suck, and that is because of Snyder, period. I find it difficult to believe sometimes that he was really a fan. His only saving grace is that he hired Gibbs.

Just to be clear, you do know that Snyder had nothing to do with hiring Norv right?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

So many more reasons now why I'm not a friggin broncos fan. Thanks.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's go back to Denver for a second, just as an example.

Ok, you're frustrated that the Redskins have hired a coach with no NFL head coaching experience....well so did the Broncos (phenom or not, McDaniels has proven nothing)

You're upset the Redskins front office structure doesn't include a General Manager...well neither does the Broncos

You're upset the Redskins draft choices aren't contributing and you see how much Eddie Royal contributed in Denver....well their first two picks from 2007 (DE Jarvis Moss 1st round and DE Tim Crowder 2nd round) combined for 13 tackles and 3.5 sacks this year. Exactly what we got out of Demetric Evans this year

You're upset about our draft history...well do the names George Foster, Derius Watts, Ashley Lelie, Willie Middlebrooks, Terry Pierce, Dorsett Davis strike fear in you as part of a vaunted Broncos team?

You're upset about our 22-26 record the past three years with only one playoff appearance...but the last three years the Broncos have been 24-24 with no playoff appearances

So is the grass really all that much greener on the other side?

Here's the thing about Denver: It looks like they have an absolute dynamite tandem at wideout and promising gunslinger of a quarterback. In many cases around the NFL, that's half of the championship puzzle right there. Yes they have work to do, especially on defense. But if it's one thing that separates them from us it's an owner who knows how to win, and knows when to step back and allow the people who truly know the game of football to take over.

Pat Bowlen saw a franchise that under Mike Shanahan had become stagnant, had aged and deteriorated on defense, and knew that it was time to make a change. With the Broncos there's a track record of success and willingness to shift course when the team has so clearly veered off course.

Inexplicably, Dan Snyder refuses to open his eyes to the fact that the same thing has been happening here. And there aren't any Lombardi trophies Vinny Cerrato can point to in his defense.

[53Fan]

I'm a Redskin fan plain and simple. Sometimes it's a pain in the ass, sometimes it's one of the greatest joys in my life. I don't quit on friends or family when they take the wrong path. I want to be there when they come back. The Skins frustrate the hell out of me sometimes, but that is the nature of alot of relationships. I have faith....and the Redskins WILL return to glory. As for Zorn, with the draft coming up, I don't blame him for not showing his cards. I think he's learning that you can be honest without telling everything you know. HAIL REDSKINS and FY Dallas. You ain't seen nothing yet. But you will.....OMG boys...you will.

[Meks]

why the hell would they show Moss the door?

i would be extremely upset.