Bucs fire Coach Jon Gruden and GM Bruce Allen

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by MdBluefinCrab

Wow, just...wow. Wish he could come here but with our front office and ownership, we know that's never going to happen.
He's a damn good motivator but also a stubborn bastard as evidenced by his refusal to start Garcia and only doing so when he had no other choice.
He might have had only one appearance at the Super Bowl but he had the Bucs in contention each and every year.

I agree. They had no right being as good as they were under Gruden. Their RBs were always injured, their best WR was Joey Galloway and their best QB was Jeff Garcia (a backup on most teams). Even when Garcia was out with injury, Gruden found ways to win games with Simms and Grabowski. I know their D was always solid, but it was more on par with ours and in no way elite (except for the first couple years). He's a good coach.

[DarkKnight]

Hell no! i dont want his fake chucky ass in D.C., I'm glad he got fired, he lived off T.Dungy team until it all ran out then, what did he build? thats right not a got-damn thing, I though he was over-rated trash. every year, after he won the SB, with Dungy team, he hasnt gotten better..........F#$% Chuck!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Hell no! i dont want his fake chucky ass in D.C., I'm glad he got fired, he lived off T.Dungy team until it all ran out then, what did he build? thats right not a got-damn thing, I though he was over-rated trash. every year, after he won the SB, with Dungy team, he hasnt gotten better..........F#$% Chuck!

Gruden had 2 winning seasons out of the four seasons he was with the Raides (under Al Davis nonetheless). He actually had no losing seasons, going:

'98: 8-8
'99: 8-8
'00: 12-4 (went to AFC Championship)
'01: 10-6 (lost to NE in the "Tuck" game in the playoffs

Yes, he took Tony Dungy's team in 2002 to the Superbowl (with a 12-4 record), but Bill Callahan took Gruden's team to the Superbowl as well.

Gruden actually had two losing seasons with "Tony Dungy's team" after winning the Superbowl....so I don't think your theory of riding Dungy's team holds much. He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years. So yeah, he's overrated and sucks.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Gruden had 2 winning seasons out of the four seasons he was with the Raides (under Al Davis nonetheless). He actually had no losing seasons, going:

'98: 8-8
'99: 8-8
'00: 12-4 (went to AFC Championship)
'01: 10-6 (lost to NE in the "Tuck" game in the playoffs

Yes, he took Tony Dungy's team in 2002 to the Superbowl (with a 12-4 record), but Bill Callahan took Gruden's team to the Superbowl as well.

Gruden actually had two losing seasons with "Tony Dungy's team" after winning the Superbowl....so I don't think your theory of riding Dungy's team holds much. He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years. So yeah, he's overrated and sucks.

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

Interesting...Zorn could very well be fired if he goes 8-8, yet Al Davis did not fire Gruden after going 8-8 for two season.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Interesting...Zorn could very well be fired if he goes 8-8, yet Al Davis did not fire Gruden after going 8-8 for two season.

Zorn won't make 8-8 next season unless some major changes occur with his offensive scheme. I wouldn't mind Gruden coming here as OC. The WCO sucks and is rather antiquated.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Any chance of Zorn making it to the 3rd year if he goes 8-8 next year?

First let me say if we commit to Zorn for 2 years. You have to give him 3 years. For the following reasons.
1) to allow his first year rookies to emerge
2) to allow the WCO to develop
3) because history shows it takes a average of 3 seasons for a new coach to bring a losing team up to contension (I know about the exeptions)

I also think it will depend on how and by who we lose 8 games to. Our wins should be convinsing and dominate. Our loses should be very close and to high caliber teams. And can be contributed to mistakes of a developing WCO. The D should be dominate and there should be a sense of overall consistancy. Also would have to see us getting stronger as the season progresses.

If we have a 6-2 start and end up 8-8 Zorns gone. If we however have a 2-6 start and start to gel mid season, then a 3rd season is in order. IMO

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 44ever

First let me say if we commit to Zorn for 2 years. You have to give him 3 years. For the following reasons.
1) to allow his first year rookies to emerge
2) to allow the WCO to develop
3) because history shows it takes a average of 3 seasons for a new coach to bring a losing team up to contension (I know about the exeptions)

I also think it will depend on how and by who we lose 8 games to. Our wins should be convinsing and dominate. Our loses should be very close and to high caliber teams. And can be contributed to mistakes of a developing WCO. The D should be dominate and there should be a sense of overall consistancy. Also would have to see us getting stronger as the season progresses.

If we have a 6-2 start and end up 8-8 Zorns gone. If we however have a 2-6 start and start to gel mid season, then a 3rd season is in order. IMO

Yeah I agree.

It's foolish to give a rookie head coach two years to build a formidable team. What were the expectations when he was hired in the first place? Being that he didn't have credentials to even become a head coach you have to give him ample time to grow into the position.

If they fire him after 2 or 3 seasons it would show that they didn't have faith in him to start with and it would also prove the ineptitude of the front office.


The Skins better start making some long term plans at some point because their fad strategies just are not working out. Show you have some foresight and are wise enough to have faith in your own decisions...damn.

[DarkKnight]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Gruden had 2 winning seasons out of the four seasons he was with the Raides (under Al Davis nonetheless). He actually had no losing seasons, going:

'98: 8-8
'99: 8-8
'00: 12-4 (went to AFC Championship)
'01: 10-6 (lost to NE in the "Tuck" game in the playoffs

Yes, he took Tony Dungy's team in 2002 to the Superbowl (with a 12-4 record), but Bill Callahan took Gruden's team to the Superbowl as well.

Gruden actually had two losing seasons with "Tony Dungy's team" after winning the Superbowl....so I don't think your theory of riding Dungy's team holds much. He has had 4 winning seasons out of the seven seasons he's been with Tampa Bay. Making it six winning seasons, five division crowns, five playoff appearances and one Superbowl in 11 years. So yeah, he's overrated and sucks.

What did he do, after he took Dungy team to the playoff's again, not a got-damn thing.. i dont give a shit about his Raiders accomplishments if thats what you wanna call it!

[GTripp0012]

How do you get better than winning the super bowl? Win the Senior Bowl in that same year?

[djnemo65]

Although losing 4 straight to miss the playoffs was not great, I still see Tampa Bay as a team that has overachieved on the field the last couple of seasons. They've been able to consistently challenge for division titles and make the playoffs with rosters that appeared, to me at least, pretty flawed going into each season.

That Gruden has been able to put up respectable numbers without any playmakers of merit and a rotating stable of washed-up QB's is impressive.

So I get firing the GM because their player acquisitions have been spotty the last few years, but I don't get firing the coach.

[44ever]

Unless they're constructive, the Danny, Zorn and Vinny comments gotta go.

[DarkKnight]

Originally Posted by 44ever

Unless they're constructive, the Danny, Zorn and Vinny comments gotta go.

Do they? People earn the right to make any comment they want dick head? go pull it out of your ass and stop sounding like the boards bitch by complaining so damn much........Pus

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by DarkKnight

Do they? People earn the right to make any comment they want dick head? go pull it out of your ass and stop sounding like the boards bitch by complaining so damn much........Pus

Last warning

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Last warning

forget it he's done