obama is taking my $

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

But again, we now have infighting over a very divisive issue. Why did this have to be done NOW, couldn't we focus first on the issues that can build a consensus, or work toward improving our country? And before you say there is time etc etc, consider for a minute if this was a republican president who came in and the first thing he/she did was to impose a ban on funding of international organizations who promote abortion. would you still be saying give the new president time? Lets not start with the divisive, lets work to get the economy and country working.

LOL, you know that this happened right?

[CRedskinsRule]

Yep, and i know how every pro-abortion group reacted. Again, if he wants it to be same old c*** then so be it, but that's not what he said. so now we are back to the old petty arguments instead of trying to build a better country based on what unites us. instead of emphasizing that which we all agree and work toward he has again chosen a road of one sided political pandering. I thought and hoped he was better than that.

[CRedskinsRule]

it's interesting that you pulled the line out, that we all knew had happened, as opposed to answering the question that followed, or responding to the general point that this was an action which, while he has the right to do it, could have waited until after his first five days.

[12thMan]

Like, we give them 10 bucks - and that 10 bucks can't go to the doctor performing the procedure, does that make sense? It can go towards counseling and family-planning services.

Read a portion of this Press Release from NARAL:

The global gag rule, which former President George W. Bush imposed on his first day in office, prohibited the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) from granting family-planning funds to any overseas health center unless it agreed not to use its own, private, non-U.S. funds for abortion services or counseling. Bush imposed this rule even though federal law already prohibits the use of U.S. tax dollars for abortion services overseas.....

Keenan said President Obama's strong action on behalf of women would incur criticism from anti-choice pressure groups that are hostile to birth control.

"We fully expect anti-choice politicians to distort the facts and make this about abortion, when it's not," Keenan said. "It's unconscionable that the same people who oppose legal abortion also want to block the world's poorest women from accessing birth control and other services that reduce the need for abortion in the first place."

For the last four years, President Bush has arbitrarily withheld funding appropriated by Congress to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), which provides family-planning services, prenatal care, and other primary health services in developing countries.

For more information regarding these issues, including examples of how the global gag rule has cut off women's access to birth control, please visit NARAL Pro-Choice America.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Like, we give them 10 bucks - and that 10 bucks can't go to the doctor performing the procedure, does that make sense? It can go towards counseling and family-planning services.

Read a portion of this Press Release from NARAL:

The global gag rule, which former President George W. Bush imposed on his first day in office, prohibited the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) from granting family-planning funds to any overseas health center unless it agreed not to use its own, private, non-U.S. funds for abortion services or counseling. Bush imposed this rule even though federal law already prohibits the use of U.S. tax dollars for abortion services overseas.....

Keenan said President Obama's strong action on behalf of women would incur criticism from anti-choice pressure groups that are hostile to birth control.

"We fully expect anti-choice politicians to distort the facts and make this about abortion, when it's not," Keenan said. "It's unconscionable that the same people who oppose legal abortion also want to block the world's poorest women from accessing birth control and other services that reduce the need for abortion in the first place."

For the last four years, President Bush has arbitrarily withheld funding appropriated by Congress to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), which provides family-planning services, prenatal care, and other primary health services in developing countries.

For more information regarding these issues, including examples of how the global gag rule has cut off women's access to birth control, please visit NARAL Pro-Choice America.

12th thats a very poor source which is very bias and would be like someone going to a source against abortion. If people think that if we are sending money to places that provide abortion and that none of the funds will support and pay for them is crazy. After the money hits their hands we have little or no control over what happens with these funds. Just look at what happens here in the US with bailout money and how congrees has trouble controlling how its spent here at home.

[dmek25]

why does this topic invoke so many nutty opinions?

[12thMan]

It's the word "abortion", Dmek. It's a sexy word to use and divisive at the same time. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

But I suspect it's a number of things that has caused this particular topic to bubble to the top and become central to a much larger debate. I think, for one, coming off the heels of a historic election, people are engaged like never before.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

What a joke. What you meant to say is that in the last twenty years it's become fashionable for pro-choice politicians to ass-cover with some caveat indicating that in the purely moral sphere, of course they have reservations about this very difficult decision. Blah, blah, blah. Thomas Jefferson wasn't for slavery either. Actions speak much louder than words when it comes to things like this.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

What a joke. What you meant to say is that in the last twenty years it's become fashionable for pro-choice politicians to ass-cover with some caveat indicating that in the purely moral sphere, of course they have reservations about this very difficult decision. Blah, blah, blah. Thomas Jefferson wasn't for slavery either. Actions speak much louder than words when it comes to things like this.

So who's actions are right in this case, 70? The government telling a woman what to do with her own body, a very personal and moral decision or the alternative, doing what she feels is in her best interest and well being?

Why is it an either or proposition?

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

So who's actions are right in this case, 70? The government telling a woman what to do with her own body, a very personal and moral decision or the alternative, doing what she feels is in her best interest and well being?

Why is it an either or proposition?

It's become a common strategy among center-leftish politicians to support abortion rights 100% when it counts (that is with their votes) and then turn around and pretend that they have these great moral reservations when it doesn't count at all (when they're flapping their big gums).

If you're not sure when life begins, if it's "above your pay grade" wouldn't it make more sense to err on the side of caution and oppose abortion? Instead their uncertainty has led them to support abortion on demand wherever and whenever possible. They're full of shit.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's the word "abortion", Dmek. It's a sexy word to use and divisive at the same time. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

But I suspect it's a number of things that has caused this particular topic to bubble to the top and become central to a much larger debate. I think, for one, coming off the heels of a historic election, people are engaged like never before.

12th back 10 years ago I would have agreed with you until I met these two sisters who were very big in the pro-choice movement. There views on this subeject were so far to the left it almost seemed that they took pride in a women having a choice and choosing abortion. I'm not sure how the subject came up at this party but I'm pretty neutural on the abortion issue and all this one person said is that she could understand why some thought abortion was murder. These girls went nuts and they started saying things that just amazed me. After we left and got talking in the car the 4 people with me thought they had this party to push an agenda and even asked if anyone wanted to attend a rally. The one person who knew them even apologized for taking us to their party and we all kind of laughed it off put I just cannot forget what they said and the hate they showed to people with a different opinions. The funny thing was that no one their was really pro-life and most were pretty neutural on the subject.

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by firstdown

12th back 10 years ago I would have agreed with you until I met these two sisters who were very big in the pro-choice movement. There views on this subeject were so far to the left it almost seemed that they took pride in a women having a choice and choosing abortion. I'm not sure how the subject came up at this party but I'm pretty neutural on the abortion issue and all this one person said is that she could understand why some thought abortion was murder. These girls went nuts and they started saying things that just amazed me. After we left and got talking in the car the 4 people with me thought they had this party to push an agenda and even asked if anyone wanted to attend a rally. The one person who knew them even apologized for taking us to their party and we all kind of laughed it off put I just cannot forget what they said and the hate they showed to people with a different opinions. The funny thing was that no one their was really pro-life and most were pretty neutural on the subject.

and the difference with the radical right, that would rather bomb abortion clinics is???

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

and the difference with the radical right, that would rather bomb abortion clinics is???

12th made the statement that "no on is for abortion" which I don't believe is true and I was showing why I did think that was true.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

12th made the statement that "no on is for abortion" which I don't believe is true and I was showing why I did think that was true.

I think you know what I meant when I said no one is for abortion. Bottom line, no woman wants someone telling them what to do with their body.

Your story provides a very good and accurate account of why many have taken one side of the issue. And I would say that for every story such as yours, there's at least one that pushed people in the other directions.

There's no question this issue, at least in my opinion, has been politicized by many on the left and demonized by some of our religious brothers on the right. I think the issue is, or should be, not whether we make abortion illegal, but how can we reduce unwanted pregnacies.

I know, I know there I go again with my talking points. I can't help myself.

[4mrusmc]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

It's the word "abortion", Dmek. It's a sexy word to use and divisive at the same time. The reality is, no one is FOR abortion.

But I suspect it's a number of things that has caused this particular topic to bubble to the top and become central to a much larger debate. I think, for one, coming off the heels of a historic election, people are engaged like never before.

I agree 12th. That is why your side likes to use the word choice. Why not call it what it really is: Infanticide.