Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Buster

Maybe the WP figure includes the amount set aside for the draft and the article didn't.

Maybe the folks that cover the Redskins for the WP are friggin idiots??

[Ruhskins]

The team is taking a look at young offensive lineman with potential and I bet some people are going to be upset about it. I swear, you can't win with the fans.

I'm glad the team is looking at these players. I hope they can sign two players of this caliber to add youth and depth to the line.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No way Rabach is worse than Jansen, Heyer, Thomas or any of our backups. At worst, he was our third best lineman behind Kendall and Samuels. I'm not saying I think Rabach is a stud - Center needs to be upgraded... its just the rest of our line is so bad. I think Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas beside him... whereas i dont think Randy would benefit much from having a better RT and Center beside him.

I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Maybe the folks that cover the Redskins for the WP are friggin idiots??

I think WP meant Warpath, not Washington Post- who are of course friggin idiots.

The Warpath number is now 11.1 million, and does not include any money allocated for Rookies. so 6 million probably includes the rookie allocation, and they probably used a higher number then Warpaths because the Warpath guys actually looked at who we might draft, and the others just ballparked.

Obviously the Warpath crew is right on, and the other guys just tried to get close to make a good story!

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No way Rabach is worse than Jansen, Heyer, Thomas or any of our backups. At worst, he was our third best lineman behind Kendall and Samuels. I'm not saying I think Rabach is a stud - Center needs to be upgraded... its just the rest of our line is so bad. I think Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas beside him... whereas i dont think Randy would benefit much from having a better RT and Center beside him.



Is that because you doubt Smiths ability or you have some supreme confidence in Willis?

What does this have to do with "supreme confidence in Willis" The guy let up 1 sack in his 10 starts. I could easily say the same about with you're "supreme confidence" in Heyer. You're blaming the rest of the line for Rabach's medocre play? WOW. Who else would you put ahead of Thomas at RG, Reinhardt? It's ridiculous that your blaming Thomas for Rabach's average play.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.

Ahem, clearly you haven't been reading JLC carefully. Every other linemen is replaceable but Rabach is a FIXTURE at Center. :yeahright

[Hamoskinz]

We should sign Ray Willis over Elton Brown. Brown sounds like a guard and would get exploited by Ware and Osi if he gets to man the RT spot. I was hoping I'd check Warpath today and see that we have signed Willis. With him locked down, we will have options with the 13th pick, to see if one of the big 4 falls to us then we go with Dbags scenario

...I would love to see the team sign Ray Willis then draft Andre Smith in the first and a Center in the third. Then have a starting lineup like so:

LT - Chris Samuals
LG - Derrick Dockery
C - Casey Rabach
RG - Ray Willis
RT - Andre Smith

Backups - Stephon Heyer, Jon Jansen, 3rd Round Center, Chad Rhinehart, Randy Thomas

BUT
If big 4 are gone then we can look at Brian Orakpo or Rey Maualuga @ 13
OR trade down if someone wants to move up.

However, if we go into the draft with RT unaddressed, we would be limited in our options because we would either have to take one of the big 4 or trade down to nab Beatty or Meredith. I am not confident in our scouts and Vinny to get us a solid RT in the 3rd round after the Rinehart pick.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.

Man, you are way out on a limb on this topic. We may survive another year with Jansen at RT but Jason Cambell won't. JC is taking too many hits from people coming from that side.

Also, you need to be realistic about the probability of injuries to both Jansen and Randy Thomas during the season. You can bet the mortgage money that they will both miss games due to injury, based on their ages and injury histories.

You should know that Joe Bugel likes Rabach. Enough said. If you need another reason, though, I hope you would agree with me that it would be difficult for a rookie center to make the line calls for our team. Hey, I'm aware that we could do better at center but I think we should just draft a promising C/G and work him into the lineup over time.

Ray Willis is a Tackle - a Right Tackle. He's a good pass protector who only gave up 1 sack last season. I am 100% in favor of signing him and starting him at RT.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Ray Willis is going to come off the street and bump Randy Thomas to the bench? I doubt that.

Why are people giving up on Randy Thomas? He was good in the beginning of the year and was decent down the stretch even with a broken neck.

Agreed. Randy Thomas has way too much gumption, pride, and character to do anything but come back with a serious vengeance in 2009.

He's older and won't be able to pull and get to the edges like he did four years ago, but the neck will be better and should allow him to drive-block better than he did last year.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by vallin21

What does this have to do with "supreme confidence in Willis" The guy let up 1 sack in his 10 starts. I could easily say the same about with you're "supreme confidence" in Heyer. You're blaming the rest of the line for Rabach's medocre play? WOW. Who else would you put ahead of Thomas at RG, Reinhardt? It's ridiculous that your blaming Thomas for Rabach's average play.

it amuses me that you post something nonsensical and then say

I think it would require a lot of confidence in Willis to start him at RT over a guy who looks to be a franchise OT taken with the 13th overall pick in the draft.

I dont, and have never, expressed supreme confidence in Heyer. I dont know where that came from. Heyer is the best RT on our team right now (for what its worth). The only thing i have ever advocated is selecting a franchise LT with the 13th overall pick in the draft so Samuels can move to the right side. All this love with Willis is foolish - the only other team interested in him besides Washington is Oakland. Hes had a career two years longer than Heyer, and at that point, hes done nothing to make the majority of the league think hes anything more than Heyer is - a guy who is somewhere between an above-average backup and average starter right now.

And i'm not blaming anyone on the line for anyone elses play. All i did, was offer my opinion that Rabach would benefit more from having better guys along side him than would Thomas. If you read comments from Bugel about our line (and sift through the positive "gibbs-speak,") its clear this is his opinion. In fact, the team itself identified BOTH guard postions and RT as its primary OL needs. Rabach will be 31 when the season begins. He has only missed one game in the past 6 years. Thomas is two years older and has suffered through injuries of one kind or another for the past several years. Rabach is obviously the better lineman at th is point in his career. It stands to reason, he would benefit much more from better guys on either side of him than Rabach would. You think Rabach is the weakest link (besides jansen obviously)? Then how about you offer some sort of cohesive argument to support your point of view. I'd love to hear it.

[GMScud]

I'm gonna have to side with GTripp on the Rabach argument. I think the guy is on the downslide. Tripp breaks down more film than anyone not named Ron Jaworski, and has provided numerous examples (backed by stats mind you) on Rabach's shortcomings. Go back and read some of his offensive game charts from the regular season. Just because Rabach is durable doesn't mean he's one of our best lineman. He gets beat up at the point of attack all the time, especially by NTs in 3-4 defenses.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think there's anyway you could say this if you've seen what I've seen. Jansen's flaws are based in age and agility limitations. Not great, but we could surivive another year of Jansen. Thomas, he had a down year for sure last year, but more because he looked lost in the new system than he looked overmatched.

Rabach can't block players he lines up against. You have to double every defensive nose we play. He's simply not good enough. He wasn't in 2008, and he wasn't in 2007 either.

Our line was pretty good in 2006, but he's been in severe decline since then. He's the very definition of a liability, and while we could decide to suck it up and let Jansen play RT another year, we can't act like we're serious about improving the pass protection, and then have a guy who can't protect right in the middle of the line for a third year in a row.

I agree with your points on Jansen and to some extent, i understand your defense of Thomas. personally, i think Thomas will regress this year the same way Jansen did last year. Both are still serviceable linemen in this league, but they both pale in comparison to the players they were just 2 years ago. Jansen hit the wall hard last year and its going to happen to Thomas sooner rather than later. I dont know where you get your comments about Rabach getting man-handled last year - he had a few bad plays that I remember, but he played solid football against some of the best NTs in the league last year. Rabach was good enough to make SportingNews and USATodays All-Pro team at mid-season 2008. He's certainly better than any FA centers on the market right now and we have too many needs to address center with a top pick in the draft. With a cap figure in the 2M range, Rabach is offering us alot of bang for our buck.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

it amuses me that you post something nonsensical and then say

I think it would require a lot of confidence in Willis to start him at RT over a guy who looks to be a franchise OT taken with the 13th overall pick in the draft.

I dont, and have never, expressed supreme confidence in Heyer. I dont know where that came from. Heyer is the best RT on our team right now (for what its worth). The only thing i have ever advocated is selecting a franchise LT with the 13th overall pick in the draft so Samuels can move to the right side. All this love with Willis is foolish - the only other team interested in him besides Washington is Oakland. Hes had a career two years longer than Heyer, and at that point, hes done nothing to make the majority of the league think hes anything more than Heyer is - a guy who is somewhere between an above-average backup and average starter right now.

And i'm not blaming anyone on the line for anyone elses play. All i did, was offer my opinion that Rabach would benefit more from having better guys along side him than would Thomas. If you read comments from Bugel about our line (and sift through the positive "gibbs-speak,") its clear this is his opinion. In fact, the team itself identified BOTH guard postions and RT as its primary OL needs. Rabach will be 31 when the season begins. He has only missed one game in the past 6 years. Thomas is two years older and has suffered through injuries of one kind or another for the past several years. Rabach is obviously the better lineman at th is point in his career. It stands to reason, he would benefit much more from better guys on either side of him than Rabach would. You think Rabach is the weakest link (besides jansen obviously)? Then how about you offer some sort of cohesive argument to support your point of view. I'd love to hear it.

First off the was to adressed to your follish view on Thomas being the reason Rabach's play has declined. Second, you can say Willis is garbage but he has proven he is capable of starting in the league. Heyer is for the most part untested and unproven. We can dissagree on Willis (because if he doesn't sign we're probably drafting a OT (if available) at 13) The team has said they are looking at somene to replace JANSEN AT RT NOT THOMAS. This tell's me you've been reading JLC's inaccurate blog at the Post.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Man, you are way out on a limb on this topic. We may survive another year with Jansen at RT but Jason Cambell won't. JC is taking too many hits from people coming from that side.

Also, you need to be realistic about the probability of injuries to both Jansen and Randy Thomas during the season. You can bet the mortgage money that they will both miss games due to injury, based on their ages and injury histories.

You should know that Joe Bugel likes Rabach. Enough said. If you need another reason, though, I hope you would agree with me that it would be difficult for a rookie center to make the line calls for our team. Hey, I'm aware that we could do better at center but I think we should just draft a promising C/G and work him into the lineup over time..

Is that you, JLC?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I agree with your points on Jansen and to some extent, i understand your defense of Thomas. personally, i think Thomas will regress this year the same way Jansen did last year. Both are still serviceable linemen in this league, but they both pale in comparison to the players they were just 2 years ago. Jansen hit the wall hard last year and its going to happen to Thomas sooner rather than later. I dont know where you get your comments about Rabach getting man-handled last year - he had a few bad plays that I remember, but he played solid football against some of the best NTs in the league last year. Rabach was good enough to make SportingNews and USATodays All-Pro team at mid-season 2008. He's certainly better than any FA centers on the market right now and we have too many needs to address center with a top pick in the draft. With a cap figure in the 2M range, Rabach is offering us alot of bang for our buck.

If you can produce a link to this, I think you'd be off the hook for assuming Rabach was performing decently last year.

But boy, they'll be getting an email pretty soon. Who else made that team, Kwame Harris?

I maintain that you and I aren't disagreeing on the same level. You are providing insight based on what you've read, etc. Places have reported that Casey Rabach was a big proponent for our 6-2 start. I get that. You are just reporting onto me what you've gathered.

I'm telling you first hand, based on extensive tape review, that what you've read is incorrect, and hilariously so. The logic that Casey Rabach deserves to keep his job is nothing more than an assumption based on the overall productivity of the Redskins running game through 8 weeks last year from people who don't follow the team and might have seen a single game (such as the first Dallas game).

In my opinion, that doesn't qualify them to comment accurately on the subject. In reality, their assumptions are dead wrong.