The image of Redskins fans?

[RedskinMike]

Originally Posted by AnimateYYZ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Redskins one of the top pro sports franchises in the world? We haven't won a playoff game since Desert Storm, yet Fed Ex sells out and Redskins merchandise still flies off the shelves.

Philly fans are pissed off well, because they live in Philly. If you've spent any amount of time in this city, you'd know that there is certainly no "brotherly love".

Dallas fans are the Yankees fans of football. They span the entire nation and talk out of their ass and always, always buy into the hype.

New York fans are generally the more articulate of the three, but will run off at the mouth if given the opportunity, especially given their collection of defensive linemen that brought them an upset over the cocky Patriots.

Redskins fans may be perceived as delusional and have been somewhat spoiled by the success of the team throughout the 80's. Therefore many "fans" expect a division title, or at the very least a playoff appearance every year. The problem is, Washington D.C. and the metropolitan area is a melting pot. It's sprawling suburbs harbor people of all types from all over the world. The same could be said for many major American cities, but in my opinion D.C. stands alone. It's the nation's capitol and is probably despised unfairly in sports due to the fact that it's the home of many corrupt politicians. However, Washington is definitely a football town and it's fans by in large are loyal and true.

We won a playoff game in 2005

[irish]

When my out of DC friends tell me their impression of Skins fans its a tale of change. Back in the RFK days they viewed Skins fans as one of the best in the league with a packed stadium, rabid fans, etc. Now in the FedEx days they see Skins fans as fair weather, and not so rabid (especially in light of having FedEx over run by Steeler fans last season). They dont really blame Skins fans for being less rabid as the team hasnt really given them much to get excited about since 1992.

So, much like the team, Skins fans have dropped (in others eyes) from one of the best to just another also ran. IMO, thats a real shame.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by AnimateYYZ

Dude, I cant tell you how much I've heard Sh*t like this- especially from Philly and Dallas fans. 'Fair weather' or 'bandwagon' are terms that they are simply not familiar with... hypocrites.

I can never take anyone's football talk seriously after that.. I mean wtf, that's a womanly trait (no offense women!)

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I believe the statues of Bobby Lee and Stonewall Jackson (Both Virginians) on monument avenue would qualify Virginia as being "Southern". So would the Daughters of the Confederacy on BLVD, not to mention Jefferson Davis Highway, Semmes Avenue, and the museum of the Confederacy. I'm just saying . . . .

That area is FAR from being "southern" .. I lived in NoVA and DC most of my life and it's NEVER been southern when I lived there

you can draw whatever line you want, it's just not.. the closest southern city is richmond and that's even teetering, but still has it

a statue doesn't mean anything, a highway name doesn't mean anything, and does the holocaust museum make it a jewish city?

[djnemo65]

That old bellwether of average dope sports sentiment Bill Simmons has been consistent in calling Washington at least one of the worst sports towns in America, along with Atlanta and a few other places, for the past year, especially after the Steelers MNF "towelgate" or whatever its called. I guess those bright yellow clusters of towels were just obvious enough for him and others to process and file.

I think that's crap personally. You don't judge a fanbase by the rich frontrunners who happen to live in the town and nominally support the team, and who do all kinds of stuff that annoys others like selling tickets to a rival team's fans and leaving after the third quarter of a still winnable game and - gasp - drinking wine in a football stadium. No, you look at the core group of fans that sticks with the team through good times and bad. Given that measure, Skins fans are as good as any in the league.

[sportscurmudgeon]

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

Sportscurmudgeon:

You make good points. However, DC is in a unique spot. How many other teams across the country have all 4 major sports, a large amount of college/universities with D-1 sports, and exist in such an area as population-dense as the mid-atlantic/northeastern US? Philly, NY, and Baltimore are major metropolitan areas within 200 or so miles of DC, and if you add up teams in the 4 major sports, there are 14 other franchises separate from those in DC.

Also, I'd like to see the stats on other teams in the NHL, NBA, and MLB that sell a high % of seats during pitiful stretches of futility.

As far as the college sports, I'm a Gator and can attest to the loyalty and sellouts for them, but Gainesville, FL is a fart in the wind compared to the DC metro area. There's nothing to do down there except watch the Gators.
I have and always will think Maryland fans are soft.

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

That area is FAR from being "southern" .. I lived in NoVA and DC most of my life and it's NEVER been southern when I lived there

you can draw whatever line you want, it's just not.. the closest southern city is richmond and that's even teetering, but still has it

a statue doesn't mean anything, a highway name doesn't mean anything, and does the holocaust museum make it a jewish city?

You probably didn't hear the uproar when they put up an Arthur Ash statue. Some felt it was wrong to put him next to people who got shot and killed.

It's getting like that everywhere including the South. NOVA is about as southern as a Philly cheese steak. Miami and Atlanta aren't that Southern either.

Suburbia has no style for better or worst IMO. I don't know why there is a Holocaust museum in Richmond. I think a better place for it would be . . . . Berlin. But hey, it takes all kinds.

I had a friend of mine who was a St.Louis fan. He went to all of the games. He hated going up North to see a game. The people were terrible, drunk, and rude. He said when he went to see a Panther's game that the people were real nice and even bought him beer.

I've never been to a Redskins game but I'm planning on going to the Cowpuke's game this season. I'll give the Cowboy's fans a little shit but overall I'll conduct myself like a gentleman. Call it Southern, call it Virginian, it doesn't really matter. I think of it as self-respect.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

SC, while I don't disagree with what you are saying, I do disagree with the conclusion you draw. Rather than suggesting that DC is a bad sports town, your arguments instead provide support for the general consensus of this thread: that DC is an average sports town, the Redskins notwithstanding.

Sure, the still brand new and still worst in the league baseball team isn't selling out their new stadium. So what? New York is the only town in the country that doesn't lose attendance when the team struggles. It also happens to be the biggest town in America, with over 100 years of baseball tradition. Other teams? Forget about it. Even the Redsox suffered slumping attendance in the 90's. So relatively speaking, that makes DC average. Bad would be Tampa Bay, for instance, who decided not to show up for their team's World Series run.

Regarding the NBA, you again impose a ridiculous standard that no other town except New York, with the greatest professional basketball fans in the world, would meet. For instance, the Bulls, Celtics, and 76ers, three teams with championship-rich traditions, have suffered serious attendance drops during recent bad times, not unlike the Wizards. In general, the NBA has a hard enough time these days selling tickets to good teams. So DC scores average.

And the capitals? Come on, nobody cares about hockey in America. I think DC fans at least deserve credit for knowing to show up when the team is good. That is more than can be said for a lot of other putative hockey towns in the US.

And when you conclude by questioning the town's support for the Skins I have to wonder how you reconcile this with your previous argument in this thread:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Skins' fans also love to think that their team is "hated" by the media and by the rest of the NFL. That is simply not the case. Networks love the Skins because they are one of the teams that reliably draw good ratings on TV. Columnists love the Skins because there is always some kind of "drama" going on there to write about. Other owners love the Skins because the Skins' financial success increases the value of all league franchises.

Where do you think that money and attention comes from? Packers fans? Say what you want about the rich attorneys from New York with season tickets who don't show up for the game if it's raining, card-carrying Skins fans still bleed burgundy and gold, buy jerseys, and go to games.

As a Penn State guy I will concede Maryland sucks though.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

You probably didn't hear the uproar when they put up an Arthur Ash statue. Some felt it was wrong to put him next to people who got shot and killed.

It's getting like that everywhere including the South. NOVA is about as southern as a Philly cheese steak. Miami and Atlanta aren't that Southern either.

Suburbia has no style for better or worst IMO. I don't know why there is a Holocaust museum in Richmond. I think a better place for it would be . . . . Berlin. But hey, it takes all kinds.

I had turned my attention back to DC when mentioning the Holocaust museum but yeah Richmond has one too.. a lot of major cities seem to.

I had a friend of mine who was a St.Louis fan. He went to all of the games. He hated going up North to see a game. The people were terrible, drunk, and rude. He said when he went to see a Panther's game that the people were real nice and even bought him beer.

I've never been to a Redskins game but I'm planning on going to the Cowpuke's game this season. I'll give the Cowboy's fans a little shit but overall all I'll conduct myself like a gentleman. Call it Southern, call it Virginian, it doesn't really matter. I think of it as self-respect.

I'll be going to the Panthers vs Redskins game this year most likely down here in CLT so I'll have to see. They're a new team full of convert and new fans which tends to leave them a little less aggressive than most fans who've had teams for generations (notable exception being Ravens fans)

[rypper11]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

I'll be going to the Panthers vs Redskins game this year most likely down here in CLT so I'll have to see. They're a new team full of convert and new fans which tends to leave them a little less aggressive than most fans who've had teams for generations (notable exception being Ravens fans)

I'll look for you there Tryfuhl. BTW, I've been to a lot of Panthers games and they can be quite aggressive. The only upside is that the upper bowl of the stadium is 75% Skins fans. The funny thing is the people I see with old Redskins hats with Panthers jersey's during the preseason games.
We should do a Warpath meetup there this season.

[NM Redskin]

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Sportscurmudgeon:

You make good points. However, DC is in a unique spot. How many other teams across the country have all 4 major sports, a large amount of college/universities with D-1 sports, and exist in such an area as population-dense as the mid-atlantic/northeastern US? Philly, NY, and Baltimore are major metropolitan areas within 200 or so miles of DC, and if you add up teams in the 4 major sports, there are 14 other franchises separate from those in DC.

Also, I'd like to see the stats on other teams in the NHL, NBA, and MLB that sell a high % of seats during pitiful stretches of futility.

As far as the college sports, I'm a Gator and can attest to the loyalty and sellouts for them, but Gainesville, FL is a fart in the wind compared to the DC metro area. There's nothing to do down there except watch the Gators.
I have and always will think Maryland fans are soft.

[RedskinMike]

Originally Posted by NM Redskin

This guy is a retard. He goes on the radio all the time trying to make a name for himself off his tatoos. Seriously I think he is slow, at the least very annoying.