Redskins Win In Appeals Court

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by Giantone

if anyone is interested.


The Demise and Removal of the Washington Redskins Logo Petition

48 signatures?! LOL.

FWIW, Internet petitions don't mean squat -- especially ones that don't collect addresses, and only have partial names.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

48 signatures?! LOL.

FWIW, Internet petitions don't mean squat -- especially ones that don't collect addresses, and only have partial names.

48 sigs on an internet petition should be legal proof of the NON-issue. Seriously!

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Giantone

if anyone is interested.


The Demise and Removal of the Washington Redskins Logo Petition

So a grand total of 48 people have signed this petition and I wonder how many of those are friends of the person who started the the petition. They had a show on several years back about sports teams names and mascots. When they got around to talking about the skins they had one lady who was protesting against them. They showed her going to other native Americans and passing out stuff about the skins and she was trying to organize a protest before one of the games. Most of them did not really seem to care and on the day of her protest she was the only person who even showed up. I will say I was embarrassed for how some of the fans treated her and it was made worse because she was with her kids.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So a grand total of 48 people have signed this petition and I wonder how many of those are friends of the person who started the the petition. They had a show on several years back about sports teams names and mascots. When they got around to talking about the skins they had one lady who was protesting against them. They showed her going to other native Americans and passing out stuff about the skins and she was trying to organize a protest before one of the games. Most of them did not really seem to care and on the day of her protest she was the only person who even showed up. I will say I was embarrassed for how some of the fans treated her and it was made worse because she was with her kids.

In regards to the petition, what if we all signed a petition to KEEP the logo and STOP stupid lawsuits against getting rid of it. Guarentee we'd have more signatures!

[SmootSmack]

I'm just going to repost my thoughts from the last time this topic came up.

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of
supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not
represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly
disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

[Riggo44]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm just going to repost my thoughts from the last time this topic came up.

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of
supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not
represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly
disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

Exactly! Well said Smoot!

[Coff]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm just going to repost my thoughts from the last time this topic came up.

It admittedly does get increasingly difficult to pretend that the team's name does not have some other connotation. And the really cold fact is that, because Native Americans have been so marginalized in our society (once their society), that the offensiveness passes unnoticed because there is really no one around to hear the tree fall in the forest. A name that gave that kind of depiction to Blacks or Ricans like me would get shouted down because there are enough people in that constituency with enough of a relevant voice sure to tell society that that is unacceptable.

Couple of ironies though. One is that the fact is that when you say the word "Redskins" in so-called mainstream U.S. society, what people think of first IS the football team, and NOT the ethnic group. Another is that research (which I don’t have right in front of me right now) reveals that Native Americans themselves throughout the years at all levels of sport have themselves named their teams Redskins. Hmm.

When people talked about "ni**ers" that word was laced with hatred and a misguided superiority at the time it was being said, with violence, lynchings, separate restrooms, back of the bus, you name it. But when we say the word Redskins today, there is no associated hatred or sense of
supremacy vis a vis Native Americans; the word comes out of the mouth without any associated negative baggage. Sure, it is the same "word," but the substance is not the same at all. The prevailing argument is that we should dispense with the word because it is offensive and does not
represent our society today. But since we know that it does not represent today's society, then the alleged offensive substance of the word has already been rendered meaningless !

Even on the team itself, I don't remember anyone thinking Mark Rypien was dumb or reviled as the quarterback because he was Native American; of course not. So, where is the real offensiveness? What was that we learned in school, "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Growing up for me (and I’m sure others), the name depicted bravery and glory etc. and that, as far as the Washington Redskins were concerned specifically to be called a "true Redskin" was a badge of honor in the sports world and in the local community, as it stood for humble guys who worked hard on the field with great teamwork and gave to the community off of it. It was hardly
disparaging at all and really had nothing to do with offending Native Americans b/c again, Redskin conjured up the image of Darrell Green and Art Monk, not Sitting Bull.

As a minority myself, I sometimes find it perplexing that other minorities in the U.S. would look so quickly to self-identify as hyphenated, and to marginalize themselves by choosing to direct their collective energy to take up the cause of being offended by labels and semantics.

Well said.

[70Chip]

I just read the decision and for those in the know, this is the David Sentelle D.C. Federal Appeals Court. There's nothing in it but a lot of kick the can down the road legaleze. The case was filed in 1992. The original court threw it out. The appeals court disagreed and told them to try again and they did. Now the appeals court approves of their decision. But the decision has nothing whatever to do with the moral acceptability of the word "Redskins". It's all about obscure questions of who has standing, laches, the attitude of Ed Williams in 1967. It's all bullshit, in other words. The court has no interest in chiming in about wether the word "Redskins" has any value at all. In fact, the whole opinion seems to me an elaborate attempt to avoid the very same. If I were to sum it up, I would do it this way: "The word Redskins may very well be offensive but that's not the Goddam business of this Court. Now we'll give you ten pages of nonsense so we don't have say it in such a vulgar way."

[Gmanc711]

I could deal with them changing the logo (and actually would be in favor of them going to like the spear or something)...

If they changed the name, and they changed it to anything other than "The Skins'" or "Skins'" Or somthing... It'd be pretty tough for me to accept not being from the DC area and rooting for them based on location.

[skinsnut]

we could just change change the name to Maroonskins

[SBXVII]

You know what if they don't like the name don't root for the team. Everyone thinks we all should think a like. It's every where even in Gov. We elect people to sit in Washington and make decisions as to what we as a society would want and they vote on it no matter if it's the popular vote or not.

People are way too politically correct. Which is why I love Carlos Mencia. I just wish people would not try to force their oppinions of what I should watch or listen to on my radio. If you don't like it change the channel.

[SkinDogg]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

You know what if they don't like the name don't root for the team. Everyone thinks we all should think a like. It's every where even in Gov. We elect people to sit in Washington and make decisions as to what we as a society would want and they vote on it no matter if it's the popular vote or not.

People are way too politically correct. Which is why I love Carlos Mencia. I just wish people would not try to force their oppinions of what I should watch or listen to on my radio. If you don't like it change the channel.

Please don't believe the hype, Carlos Mencia is an actor trying to get paid.

[SBXVII]

I often wonder if the other teams are getting as much flack like the Kansas City Cheifs? or the Cleveland Indians, or the Florida Seminols.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I often wonder if the other teams are getting as much flack like the Kansas City Cheifs? or the Cleveland Indians, or the Florida Seminols.

None of those are slurs against Indians. I root for the Redskins and respect all Indians. At the sametime I can understand why some Indians who live in this country find it offensive.

[Redskins8588]

Originally Posted by Brian Orakpo

None of those are slurs against Indians. I root for the Redskins and respect all Indians. At the sametime I can understand why some Indians who live in this country find it offensive.

I agree that the Cleveland Indians is not a slur against Native Americans, but you have to agree that the mascot, Chief Wahoo, is more offensive than the one on the Redskins helmet...