Obama's speech to students today

[saden1]

Haters will be hate and political opportunist are the epitome of haters. This is nothing more than a political opportunity gone array. In the end these haters make for awesome self-destructive clowns.

[CRedskinsRule]

ya know- i'm so sick of the f-ing race card. The same thing happened to Bush 1, see earlier link. Our politics have become so divisive that a congressman openly yelled at our president yesterday. Race should be, and is to most rational people under 65, a non-issue. Do I know that Obama is black, yes, do I know my employees are black, white, Thai, Nepalese, etc. Yes. Does it affect my interactions with them, yes- because each culture has mannerisms and uniqueness which should never be lost or dismissed. But does that fact affect how you evaluate a person's work, character, integrity - no, those are judged on individual merit.
Race is a fact of life, as JR said, but is it a fact used for evaluation, I would argue only by the oldest generations. I know my kids could give a rat's a** about the color of their friends skins, and if you told them that that was a reason not to be friends with someone they would be confused. Now if you say someone is of bad character-regardless of race, they would understand that.

Older (and I include myself) Americans need to get over race, it's not a reason, an excuse, or justification for any action. A person should be judged on his/her actions, and character. That was MLK Jr's dream.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

ya know- i'm so sick of the f-ing race card. The same thing happened to Bush 1, see earlier link. Our politics have become so divisive that a congressman openly yelled at our president yesterday. Race should be, and is to most rational people under 65, a non-issue. Do I know that Obama is black, yes, do I know my employees are black, white, Thai, Nepalese, etc. Yes. Does it affect my interactions with them, yes- because each culture has mannerisms and uniqueness which should never be lost or dismissed. But does that fact affect how you evaluate a person's work, character, integrity - no, those are judged on individual merit.
Race is a fact of life, as JR said, but is it a fact used for evaluation, I would argue only by the oldest generations. I know my kids could give a rat's a** about the color of their friends skins, and if you told them that that was a reason not to be friends with someone they would be confused. Now if you say someone is of bad character-regardless of race, they would understand that.

Older (and I include myself) Americans need to get over race, it's not a reason, an excuse, or justification for any action. A person should be judged on his/her actions, and character. That was MLK Jr's dream.

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

It's easy to get lost sometimes even by reasonably intelligent men. I actually had a co-worker tell me the other day he wouldn't bother hiring a black head-coach in pro-sports because when they get fired they might play the race card. He proclaims not to be racist but he found his position to be reasonable. Racism onDemand.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

I know of a very similar story that is close to me and the the most baffling is that these people can't even fathom that they are racist. They've rationalized it all away. The people involved actually cited my wife and I as someone who would agree with them. They asked us and we were like "WUH??? Yeah no we wouldn't have a problem with it. If we meet the guy and he's seems decent then I wouldn't care either way." This blew them away. Then they start talking about all the stats about interracial relationships and all the respected people that agree with them and we told them it didn't matter.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

A little background...

My dad was born in Baton Rouge, and moved to England shortly after birth. After returning to America, around the age of 5, he lived in the DC area. His father was a Colonel in the Air Force and eventually became Assistant Secretary of the Navy, as well as Assistant Deputy Secretary of Defense under Ford and Carter. My dad had 3 brothers and 1 sister, and I'm pretty sure their family life was good. His parents are not extreme, but do hold some "old" beliefs.

Today, my dad is an adjunct professor at Salisbury University and he's working on his PhD. He's been a business man all his life, and he's very personable and easy to get along with.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that he has not lived a sheltered life and has been exposed to lots of different perspectives and has a good education. He's 57.

==========

A little story...

Around the time when my sister was 16, she was dating a Dominican guy. My dad basically forbid it -- not dating, but dating *this* guy. After talking with him about it, and digging and irritating him, I basically called him out as a racist. His responses during our arguments led me to that -- it wasn't just some whim, he said some racist things (5 on a scale of 10). He'd never say he hates black people, because he doesn't, he just said that he doesn't believe in interracial relationships. He kept saying it's bad for the children.

Of course I would say, "It's only bad for the children because of racists, because of people like you!" I asked him why he would deny his daughter (and her boyfriend) a chance at love because of something so ignorant. He could not answer that. I asked him if the guy was white, whether it would make any difference and he said it would. I was so amazed and dumbfounded to hear such nonsense coming from my dad -- a man who is reasonably intelligent and who has many redeeming qualities. Up until this point I never knew my dad was a racist (my parents were divorced and I didn't grow up with him).

Fortunately my sister is very headstrong and independent, and didn't give in to their (mother felt the same way) persistent ignorance. She defied them and continued to date this guy. It was young lust and they are no longer together. So, it's not like I'm going to conclude with some feel-good story about how they made a family together and the guy is so great. I don't even know him.

The point of this post was just to illustrate how racism is still *very* alive in our society. It's just more hidden. Some smart and reasonable people, who you would never expect to be racist, are. And, this doesn't just apply to "old" people.

To me, if we are to ever eliminate racism, we need to err on the side of extreme diligence (if that makes any sense). Essentially, it is better to pull the race card more often than not. Better to call racism, even when it might not be, than to avoid it when it might be deserved.

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

Not if it's more common that people have personally experienced it with white people saying said racially charged comments. That's not to say that black people don't. I know my family isn't the most supportive of interracial relationships (I'm black). So it goes both ways, but it seems as if white people are more open to expressing their dissent. (generally speaking)

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

How come all the examples always used about race is of a white person and never a black person who is racist. Why don't we ever see people like Rev. Wright used as the example? Wouldn't always using a white person in the examples be a form of racism in itself?

That's actually a good question. When I think of someone who's a racist they believe that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Secondly, and historically, blacks and other minorities have been on the receiving end of "racists" behavior for over 400 years. It was not that long ago, during the civil rights era, when blacks were denied many basic rights that all Americans enjoy today. So it's against that back drop and sordid history we have defined who's racists and who's not. Or should I say who's more likely to be a racist. The truth is racism doesn't always fall into some neat little square box where it's easy to identify. Are some blacks guilty of being angry, resentful, bitter, and displaying racial hatred towards whites? No question about it.

I'm curious too, what exactly did Rev. Wright say that was racist?

[CRedskinsRule]

and for those who argue that the upset was over race, how can you even be on a frickin football board, and see all the positive ways that athletes of all races interact with kids, and parents are not sending letters of protest. If Clinton Portis goes to any school outside of Dallas, and talks to the kids about being the best you can be, or Chris Cooley goes to any school and talks about safe internet usage, are ANY parents writing letters to the editor... NO. The outrage (which was overblown no doubt) was due to Pres. Obama's politics being hated by many, not because of his race. people who can't see that or want to play the race factor are as ignorant or blind followers as those on the other side of the event

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

and for those who argue that the upset was over race, how can you even be on a frickin football board, and see all the positive ways that athletes of all races interact with kids, and parents are not sending letters of protest. If Clinton Portis goes to any school outside of Dallas, and talks to the kids about being the best you can be, or Chris Cooley goes to any school and talks about safe internet usage, are ANY parents writing letters to the editor... NO. The outrage (which was overblown no doubt) was due to Pres. Obama's politics being hated by many, not because of his race. people who can't see that or want to play the race factor are as ignorant or blind followers as those on the other side of the event

So, you're going to say that NO part of ANY of the outrage was about his race. I already acknowledged that it wasn't the majority. If you think that 0% of parents were upset about Obama's race before his politics, you're flat out wrong.

I'm not trying to play the race card. I'm telling you what I know to be a fact based on my fiancee's mother's experiences. She's a teacher in a school for Christ sake. Why would she fake outrage and call us? What would that accomplish?

[MTK]

Perhaps I presented the race issue incorrectly. I really wasn't trying to say it was the primary issue for the outrage over this speech, just that I believe it's an element in there somewhere for some people, even if it's a small, ignorant minority.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Perhaps I presented the race issue incorrectly. I really wasn't trying to say it was the primary issue for the outrage over this speech, just that I believe it's an element in there somewhere for some people, even if it's a small, ignorant minority.

Just like the left you now want to change your statement. LOL The only time I see Obama's color is when someone brings it up like you did.

[CRedskinsRule]

I am saying that the vast majority of this country acknowledges that the people who dwell on race are idiots. was it a tiny sliver of the uproar sure, but to say that it was any more than that is to ignore the reality that our political system has become so divisive that a president from either party is going to be criticized and accused of manipulating the youth. Again, there are far left believers who think the last president was "satan", and would have mocked him for talking to the youth like that. (i could certainly see threads and discussions on how a "stupid" person like him shouldn't try to talk to the youth because he can't say nuclear), is that race based, no, it is political hatred- which is far more venomous at this point in our country's dialogue, than any race based hatred.

[jdlea]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I am saying that the vast majority of this country acknowledges that the people who dwell on race are idiots. was it a tiny sliver of the uproar sure, but to say that it was any more than that is to ignore the reality that our political system has become so divisive that a president from either party is going to be criticized and accused of manipulating the youth. Again, there are far left believers who think the last president was "satan", and would have mocked him for talking to the youth like that. (i could certainly see threads and discussions on how a "stupid" person like him shouldn't try to talk to the youth because he can't say nuclear), is that race based, no, it is political hatred- which is far more venomous at this point in our country's dialogue, than any race based hatred.

I agree with that. I just wanted you to clarify. As for political hatred, it's definitely a problem in this country and it's the reason I don't engage in any of the political "debates" that take place on this board.

*Most on this board are not guilty of this*
People just don't take the time to learn about issues anymore. They grab hold of buzzwords and use those to shape their point of view and then it just turns into a shouting match because no one actually knows what they're talking about. It's pretty horrendous at this point and it's the reason I refuse to talk politics with anyone in public.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I agree with that. I just wanted you to clarify. As for political hatred, it's definitely a problem in this country and it's the reason I don't engage in any of the political "debates" that take place on this board.

*Most on this board are not guilty of this*
People just don't take the time to learn about issues anymore. They grab hold of buzzwords and use those to shape their point of view and then it just turns into a shouting match because no one actually knows what they're talking about. It's pretty horrendous at this point and it's the reason I refuse to talk politics with anyone in public.

As great as the internet is for sharing information it is horrendous at creating buzzwords. and the filtering of information also adds to this. I have Sirius, I mainly listen to NFL, but I hear ads all the time for, basically, a left leaning station, a right leaning station, and a centrist channel. Likewise people watch the news that most agrees with their views(i don't watch newschannels - where does that put me, hmmm). So where in the old days news was filtered through one, and people discussed and made up their minds, now it seems like people find a "trusted" outlet and that becomes their source of information.

I am speaking generally, obviously there is a spectrum to this effect, but I think it will only grow more pronounced and divisive in the coming years.