When it's all been said and done.

skinsfan69 · 10-05-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Funny thing is, think what he could have done with Gibbs. I think he could have won more SB with the skins than the 49ers. Think of the Schroeder and early Rypien years.

Montana was not a Gibbs type of QB but I'm sure Joe would've adjusted.

SFREDSKIN · 10-05-2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Montana was not a Gibbs type of QB but I'm sure Joe would've adjusted.

Just like Joey T.

skinsguy · 10-05-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Okay. But what if Joe had never played for Bill Walsh? What if, instead of lasting to the 3rd Round and being drafted after the likes of Jack Thompson or Steve Fuller, he went to Kansas City or Cincinnati? Would he have still won those SB's?

Great QB's are a mix of skill and opportunity. Quite frankly, w/out Bill Walsh, I think Montana is a great QB who probably would not have been as good as he was with Walsh.

I think Montana would have had a great career no matter where he went. Maybe not as many Super Bowl rings, maybe more Super Bowl rings? It's the age old debate that we have had on here for years, does the coach make the team better, or does the players make the coach better? I think it's a little bit of both, and I think Montana was special.

SouperMeister · 10-05-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Okay. But what if Joe had never played for Bill Walsh? What if, instead of lasting to the 3rd Round and being drafted after the likes of Jack Thompson or Steve Fuller, he went to Kansas City or Cincinnati? Would he have still won those SB's?

Great QB's are a mix of skill and opportunity. Quite frankly, w/out Bill Walsh, I think Montana is a great QB who probably would not have been as good as he was with Walsh.

Same can be said about Brady playing for Belicheat with Charlie Weis as OC at the beginning of Brady's run. Montana's greatness was his performance in the clutch with the game on the line. Montana to Clark to beat Dallas in the NFC Championship - iconic moment

YouTube - Montana to Clark - The Catch

Driving 92 yards in under 3 minutes to win Super Bowl XXIII - iconic drive

YouTube - Joe Montana leads the 49ers to victory...

Brady has won 3 Super Bowls, and had clutch drives to set up game winning FGs in two of those, but I wouldn't say that he's had any iconic moments that will live on in football lore like Joe Cool's.

JoeRedskin · 10-06-2010, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Same can be said about Brady playing for Belicheat with Charlie Weis as OC at the beginning of Brady's run. Montana's greatness was his performance in the clutch with the game on the line.

Montana to Clark to beat Dallas in the NFC Championship - iconic moment

Driving 92 yards in under 3 minutes to win Super Bowl XXIII - iconic drive

Brady has won 3 Super Bowls, and had clutch drives to set up game winning FGs in two of those, but I wouldn't say that he's had any iconic moments that will live on in football lore like Joe Cool's.

Well, that was my point. Great QB's playing for the innovative coaches. In fact, the iconic moment you chose is the result of a play designed by Paul Brown and that was a staple of Walsh's West Coast Offense - the Sprint Right Option. The iconic drive was classic WCO - short quick, precision passsing. Montana worked it to perfection. W/out a team schooled in the WCO (receivers and blockers) that drive doesnt happen.

Don't get me wrong, Joe was the maestro, but w/out Walsh, does either "The Catch" or "The Drive" happen? I think not.

SouperMeister · 10-06-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Well, that was my point. Great QB's playing for the innovative coaches. In fact, the iconic moment you chose is the result of a play designed by Paul Brown and that was a staple of Walsh's West Coast Offense - the Sprint Right Option. The iconic drive was classic WCO - short quick, precision passsing. Montana worked it to perfection. W/out a team schooled in the WCO (receivers and blockers) that drive doesnt happen.

Don't get me wrong, Joe was the maestro, but w/out Walsh, does either "The Catch" or "The Drive" happen? I think not.

You're giving Montana and Clark too little credit for making a great play. Montana was under extreme duress, holding the ball to the last instant as Too Tall Jones converged and throwing off balance, while Clark made a tremendous catch. As for "The Drive", Montana did convert a 2nd and 20 with a great throw to Rice. The clincher to Taylor was also a great pass. For my money, Montana was the greatest and most clutch QB ever, especially in the biggest games.

SirClintonPortis · 10-05-2010, 07:21 PM

Two words.
Sammy Baugh.

SirClintonPortis · 10-05-2010, 07:23 PM

And don't forget about Brees. Only 8-8 without a decent defense.

skinsfaninok · 10-05-2010, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

And don't forget about Brees. Only 8-8 without a decent defense.

Brees is good but not in Manning or Brady's class yet

SirClintonPortis · 10-05-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Brees is good but not in Manning or Brady's class yet

In terms of what. Accolades? Brees has at least a couple: he almost broke Marino's single season record and he played a huge role in having the Saints win the Super Bowl.

GusFrerotte · 10-05-2010, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

In terms of what. Accolades? Brees has at least a couple: he almost broke Marino's single season record and he played a huge role in having the Saints win the Super Bowl.

One SB doesn't mean a damn thing, plus the team this season looks like it has gone down half a notch in terms of performance. IF the Saints repeat, your boy is up there, but if the Vikes land Moss, they will be the favs in the NFC.

SirClintonPortis · 10-06-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

One SB doesn't mean a damn thing, plus the team this season looks like it has gone down half a notch in terms of performance. IF the Saints repeat, your boy is up there, but if the Vikes land Moss, they will be the favs in the NFC.

Ahh, the team may be back to an 8-8 level. But we're talking about the QB here. What's wrong with Brees? Degradation in his release, accuracy, dropback, what exactly?

CultBrennan59 · 10-05-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Brees is good but not in Manning or Brady's class yet

His story is as great as Brady's. He was picked in the second, did so so, but never great, kinda like campbell for us, then the chargers went out and drafted philip rivers, brees got the message and got comeback player of the year. He went out the next year in his contract year, did great, then completely screwed up his shoulder. That freaked the chargers out, they didn't re-sign him. At that point he went from very attractive free agent to not attractive free agent. Only two teams wanted him, Miami and New Orleans. He went to New Orleans with their whole Katrina thing, and him and Sean Payton turned the saints around they made the playoffs in their first year together, then a couple of years later..well we all know what happened then...Super Bowl!

tootergray34 · 10-05-2010, 10:22 PM

I'd take Peyton every day of the week. Brady is a total fag

SmootSmack · 10-06-2010, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tootergray34

I'd take Peyton every day of the week. Brady is a total fag

Hell of an argument there.

10-05-2010, 07:21 PM	#7
SirClintonPortis Pro Bowl Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,052	Re: When it's all been said and done. Two words. Sammy Baugh. __________________ Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness". Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten. The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.

10-05-2010, 07:23 PM	#8
SirClintonPortis Pro Bowl Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 6,052	Re: When it's all been said and done. And don't forget about Brees. Only 8-8 without a decent defense. __________________ Analysis using datasets (aka stats) is an attempt at reverse-engineering a player's "goodness". Virtuosity remembered, douchebaggery forgotten. The ideal character profile shoved down modern Western men and women's throats is Don Juan.

10-05-2010, 10:22 PM	#14
tootergray34 Impact Rookie Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 681	Re: When it's all been said and done. I'd take Peyton every day of the week. Brady is a total fag __________________ ---HAIL!!!---

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When it's all been said and done.

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