Pretend you are the Skins' GM...

[GTripp0012]

But it's not like we couldn't have found Jarmon a spot on this team if we really tried. Point is, we weren't going to really try: he was going to get cut. Torain may get the benefit of the doubt because he was a Shanahan acquisition (aka a "good player" in the eyes of the FO) instead of a Cerrato acquisition (not always a good player).

[NLC1054]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

But it's not like we couldn't have found Jarmon a spot on this team if we really tried. Point is, we weren't going to really try: he was going to get cut. Torain may get the benefit of the doubt because he was a Shanahan acquisition (aka a "good player" in the eyes of the FO) instead of a Cerrato acquisition (not always a good player).

Well we tried finding Jarmon a spot on the field all season last year. Asked him to drop wait to play OLB, he didn't fit there, asked him to add weight to play 3-4 DE, he didn't fit there either. He's better as a 4-3 guy, he wasn't going to fit in here, so they offloaded him.

Torain was productive when he played. Even given that he lost yardage on some plays, he was still on track to rush for 1,200 yards if he played all 16 games. I'm less concerned with his production, which could go up with better offensive line play, and more with his health. But by no means is he a useless player. We're trying to build a core of guys, and to not give Torain a shot to be a starter given the fact that he was productive when he played in a bad situation.

And when Terrell Davis came to camp last season, he explained the situation perfectly; it's going to be an ugly one yarder, an ugly 4 yard gain, an ugly 2 yard, and then you're going to pop a big run. That's pretty much what happened with Torain last season.

Also, I'm not as high on Helu as others. For some reason, I feel like Royster's going to beat him out. Just the vibes I get coming out of camp tweets and the like.

[Darrell_Green_28]

I just saw the eagles signed Oprah

[tc2deuce]

I would trade a 4th and 5th rounder but that is it.

[Monkeydad]

Dolphins signed Ronnie Brown...there goes the Torain trade.

[diehardskin2982]

no I would not. The backlash of being fleeced by Philly twice in Public opinion would most likely get me fired. I shopping the players in free agency who thought they'd have a deal by now.

[Monkeydad]

Keep in mind, Rabach was here, plus we had a lot of injuries to Trent Williams, Jammal Brown and by the time Torain took over for Portis, we had a patchwork offensive line already, so your "4 out of 5 back" statement is not completely true...those 4 did not play all season and the one we lost actually upgrades the line by removing him. Let me guess, you're a Rabach fan too.

I'm not the only person who noticed the Skins line was bad last season:


NFL Stats: by Team Category
ACTUAL STATS, ranked 28th overall, yielded 46 QB sacks (5th most) and a LEAGUE-WORST 110 QB hits.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES
30th in run blocking, 24th in pass blocking

Offensive Line Rankings
32nd overall

O-line rankings: Talent and depth rare finds - NFL - Yahoo! Sports
29th overall

2010 Offensive Line Rankings - Part 1 | ProFootballFocus.com
28th overall, Run Rank 25th, Pass Rank 28th, Penalties Rank 26th




Again, I don't understand you. You call ME clueless but you're defending the horrible O-line from last season and then degrade Torain's abilties so much that you'd trade him to a division rival for an aging CB?

You better have your house checked for radon.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Monkeydad

Keep in mind, Rabach was here, plus we had a lot of injuries to Trent Williams, Jammal Brown and by the time Torain took over for Portis, we had a patchwork offensive line already, so your "4 out of 5 back" statement is not completely true...those 4 did not play all season and the one we lost actually upgrades the line by removing him. Let me guess, you're a Rabach fan too.

I'm not the only person who noticed the Skins line was bad last season:


FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | 2010 OFFENSIVE LINES
30th in run blocking, 24th in pass blocking

LOL. Talk about not being able to read. That says 24th in run blocking and 22nd in pass blocking. Carolina, Arizona, and Chicago were in-arguably worse up front last year, and Pittsburgh was probably not quite as good as we were. After that, if you really hated our OL enough to argue that they were just 28th best in the league, then go for it. Just don't bring your biases into my Torain argument. I don't want them here.

You also managed to grab a before the season ranking of OL in your analysis of 2010 OLs. I could tell you which one it was, but I'm going to be be a jerk and make you go and actually read your own links.

[SmootSmack]

I'm confused. I keep reading the original post and I just don't see where it says let's drag everyone into a "I'm smarter than you" conversation on whose stats do the better job of proving Torain's worth, or lack thereof.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm confused. I keep reading the original post and I just don't see where it says let's drag everyone into a "I'm smarter than you" conversation on whose stats do the better job of proving Torain's worth, or lack thereof.

Tell me about it...

I can help you be less confused though: Monkeydad has to keep wildly changing the subject in an attempt to show both his passion for football and his limited grasp on literacy. It's all very amusing to me.

[Mechanix544]

Fight fight fight fight!!!!!!

[hooskins]

So much built up labor dispute tension. Season is starting real soon folks! I promise it will be alright.

[GTripp0012]

From a tape-watching perspective, it's obvious to me that Torain has some of the worst vision I've ever seen in a running back for the Washington Redskins. That hasn't prevented him from breaking tackles and ripping off yards when the blocking is there (and even sometimes when its not there), but as you all know, that's only part of the story.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

From a tape-watching perspective, it's obvious to me that Torain has some of the worst vision I've ever seen in a running back for the Washington Redskins. That hasn't prevented him from breaking tackles and ripping off yards when the blocking is there (and even sometimes when its not there), but as you all know, that's only part of the story.

LOL on "vocal minority".

IMO the field vision problem isn't so much of a vision problem, but more of a learning the system and the speed of the NFL game. As you mention, the raw talent is there (breaking tackles/ripping off yards). As the OL becomes more stable/consistent and he gets coached up, he'll be able to read and anticipate where the running lanes will be and eliminate the neg runs. Obviously a bit of cautious optimism here, but certainly worth it based on the flashes we saw last year.....or I could be completely wrong, RT stinks up the joint, and we trade him away for a conditional 6th rd pick in 2015.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

LOL on "vocal minority".

IMO the field vision problem isn't so much of a vision problem, but more of a learning the system and the speed of the NFL game. As you mention, the raw talent is there (breaking tackles/ripping off yards). As the OL becomes more stable/consistent and he gets coached up, he'll be able to read and anticipate where the running lanes will be and eliminate the neg runs. Obviously a bit of cautious optimism here, but certainly worth it based on the flashes we saw last year.....or I could be completely wrong, RT stinks up the joint, and we trade him away for a conditional 6th rd pick in 2015.

Okay. Sounds like common ground. Or something close to it.