Roster transition in the Shanny era

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well at least we've moved on to players worth talking about.

Wait only veteran starters are worth talking about?

I suppose we could start discussing McNabb and Haynesworth. What are those two worth going forward?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Are you asserting they did not?

Because their efforts to bring either of them back onto the 2011 team, well, failed.

Blamed is the not word I would use

**awaits 10 paragraph response**

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Blamed is the not word I would use

**awaits 10 paragraph response**

Let's try "soured" then.

[SmootSmack]

So we're not going to talk about how it was Andre Carter who went to the Redskins front office initially and said "no hard feelings but I don't think where you guys are headed and what I'm looking for mesh anymore" or that basically the whole league "soured" on Carlos Rogers' initial contract demands

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So we're not going to talk about how it was Andre Carter who went to the Redskins front office initially and said "no hard feelings but I don't think where you guys are headed and what I'm looking for mesh anymore" or that basically the whole league "soured" on Carlos Rogers' initial contract demands

It seems the Skins Mgmt stated that he requested the trade to find a team more in line with his abilities......AND they honored it because he's a great dude that worked hard...Super Smart....Always fighting his guts out...etc

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So we're not going to talk about how it was Andre Carter who went to the Redskins front office initially and said "no hard feelings but I don't think where you guys are headed and what I'm looking for mesh anymore" or that basically the whole league "soured" on Carlos Rogers' initial contract demands

Do you or do you not feel like we could have used those two guys on this years team?

I think I'm guilty of misrepresenting my own points at times. I do not think the Redskins have failed under Mike Shanahan because they granted Andre Carter his release instead of talking him into staying and making a fortune on his annual salary, and because they decided they could replace Carlos Rogers through free agency. We have more or less replaced the contribution of those "pro bowlers" with a first round pick and a free agent signing at corner. The issue, of course, is the lack of steady (2009-2012), clear improvement. But I think those are high-profile lapses in judgement/talent evaluation brought to light by the combination of the Redskins not being good and those guys (justifiably) being elected to the pro-bowl.

I wanted to talk more about how the Redskins struggle to evaluate talent, but oddly, no one seems to wants to argue against that point. Of course, whenever I talk about other symptomatic mistakes the Redskins make more consistently that maybe don't get as much publicity...well, why don't you go back through the thread and I can save you six paragraphs.

In short: people dismiss minor symptomatic moves as trival mistakes that no one should care about, and then they come up with individual justifications for moves that received a lot of publicity and were obviously wrong (McNabb). Then, based on some creative justifications, they arrive at the conclusion that the Redskins don't have an issue evaluating talent. For someone like me who doesn't need to eat food because I can sustain myself on a diet of haterade, well, logic and reasoning are much easier without the delusion.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It seems the Skins Mgmt stated that he requested the trade to find a team more in line with his abilities......AND they honored it because he's a great dude that worked hard...Super Smart....Always fighting his guts out...etc

And, I mean, heck of a signing by the Patriots. It's too bad about his injury, it would have been fun to watch Andre Carter in the playoffs again.

[Hog1]

Kinda' makes me hungry for.....BBQ

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Do you or do you not feel like we could have used those two guys on this years team?

I think I'm guilty of misrepresenting my own points at times. I do not think the Redskins have failed under Mike Shanahan because they granted Andre Carter his release instead of talking him into staying and making a fortune on his annual salary, and because they decided they could replace Carlos Rogers through free agency. We have more or less replaced the contribution of those "pro bowlers" with a first round pick and a free agent signing at corner. The issue, of course, is the lack of steady (2009-2012), clear improvement. But I think those are high-profile lapses in judgement/talent evaluation brought to light by the combination of the Redskins not being good and those guys (justifiably) being elected to the pro-bowl.

I wanted to talk more about how the Redskins struggle to evaluate talent, but oddly, no one seems to wants to argue against that point. Of course, whenever I talk about other symptomatic mistakes the Redskins make more consistently that maybe don't get as much publicity...well, why don't you go back through the thread and I can save you six paragraphs.

In short: people dismiss minor symptomatic moves as trival mistakes that no one should care about, and then they come up with individual justifications for moves that received a lot of publicity and were obviously wrong (McNabb). Then, based on some creative justifications, they arrive at the conclusion that the Redskins don't have an issue evaluating talent. For someone like me who doesn't need to eat food because I can sustain myself on a diet of haterade, well, logic and reasoning are much easier without the delusion.

Rogers yes, Carter no

[GTripp0012]

I think if Carter played all of Adam Carriker's snaps this year at the same position, plus played the edge in sub package pass rushing situations, I think he would have had a heck of a year for us. Then we would have been able to use an extra linebacker in the dime package for the interior rush and gotten even more pressure on quarterbacks in those long yardage. I think Carter absolutely would have helped, but they would have needed to come to an agreement on not trying to make him a 3-4 linebacker.

Then again, I'm not a proven defensive talent evaluator, so what the heck do I know?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Wait only veteran starters are worth talking about?

I suppose we could start discussing McNabb and Haynesworth. What are those two worth going forward?

More so than dime a dozen roster fillers like Tryon and Williams, yes.

[That Guy]

yeah, carter and rogers would have been to have, but carter didn't fit, and i'm not sure he'd be a great 3-4 end with his size... he's one of those guys that loses body weight during the season from what i remember.

meanwhile, carriker wasn't wanted in STL and has been solid here. I really don't feel like responding about tryon or reinhart - they showed us nothing and tryon may not be in the league, and even if they are, there are about 1000 other guys that can do the same thing. they're NFL bodies, nothing special, and guys that generally aren't that important to your W/L record.

[Bushead]

Gtripp, I've read a lot of the posts you've had since the season ended and I'm just not quite sure I follow your vendetta. You seem completely against anything and everything Shanahan has done from free agents, drafting, playing certain players, play calling, time management, personnel.

I personally just don't get it. I'm not saying you are wrong or your opinion is not backed up, but can you succinctly tell me why you are so anti-Shanahan when it comes to almost everything?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Do you or do you not feel like we could have used those two guys on this years team?

I think I'm guilty of misrepresenting my own points at times. I do not think the Redskins have failed under Mike Shanahan because they granted Andre Carter his release instead of talking him into staying and making a fortune on his annual salary, and because they decided they could replace Carlos Rogers through free agency. We have more or less replaced the contribution of those "pro bowlers" with a first round pick and a free agent signing at corner. The issue, of course, is the lack of steady (2009-2012), clear improvement. But I think those are high-profile lapses in judgement/talent evaluation brought to light by the combination of the Redskins not being good and those guys (justifiably) being elected to the pro-bowl.

I wanted to talk more about how the Redskins struggle to evaluate talent, but oddly, no one seems to wants to argue against that point. Of course, whenever I talk about other symptomatic mistakes the Redskins make more consistently that maybe don't get as much publicity...well, why don't you go back through the thread and I can save you six paragraphs.

In short: people dismiss minor symptomatic moves as trival mistakes that no one should care about, and then they come up with individual justifications for moves that received a lot of publicity and were obviously wrong (McNabb). Then, based on some creative justifications, they arrive at the conclusion that the Redskins don't have an issue evaluating talent. For someone like me who doesn't need to eat food because I can sustain myself on a diet of haterade, well, logic and reasoning are much easier without the delusion.

So were T. Williams, Riley, Paulson, Bowen, Carriker, Cofield, Gaffney, Hightower, Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson, Helu, Gomes and Royster examples of poor talent evaluation? Were the 52 players released and now out of the NFL examples of poor talent evaluation?

I guess I kinda feel like Col. Jessup in A Few Good Men.. Please tell me you have more than Rinehart, E. Williams and Justin Tryon.. Please tell me this is about more than Carter and Rogers.. We're talking about the future of our beloved franchise, please tell me you're basing your argument on something more than Stephon Heyer.. I'm going back to my base..

So again, for clarification, is the issue who is NOT here anymore or the fact that better players who replaced the 52 departed aren't better players. That I would agree is an issue but I'd offer that there's more at play than just 'poor' talent evaluation.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It seems the Skins Mgmt stated that he requested the trade to find a team more in line with his abilities......AND they honored it because he's a great dude that worked hard...Super Smart....Always fighting his guts out...etc

Word. Pretty hard to find sh!t to complain about with AC...he's about as high-character as they come.