Amerson Waived

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.

PFF is garbage.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

It's not garbage but it certainly doesn't tell the whole picture. I think it gives you an honest, technical piece where it puts the player in a box. It leaves out a lot of variables...and some intangibles. I got a subscription around thanksgiving...pretty cheap. a handful of teams that use profootball focus as a reference.

I used to love PFF. Prior to this year if you paid for the premium account all their content was available and it was awesome. They are the closet thing you can get to team grades and they had other 'signature stats' like: tackling efficiency, pass rush productivity, QB in focus, SS/FS splits then game situation stats that detailed tendencies based on formations/personnel. They've gone 'big time' now and save their more meaningful data for NFL/NCAA only. Many former subscribers didn't re-up this year and PFF received an influx of e-mail form their previous subscribers decrying their new format. If you like their content now its nothing compared to what it used to be.

It seems like several people in this thread wear their ignorance of PFF as a badge of honor and I've never understood that (in regards to anything really).

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

They aren't grading team performance they are grading individual performance.

This post seems like you are saying because Kirk wasn't on their most improved list therefore they're garbage?

Okay.

You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?

Blake Bortles still sucks donkey balls:

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | QUARTERBACKS 2015

It was just one example of why PFF is garbage.

Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.

The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.

The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.

They screwed Trent's grade up big time and nobody knows if it's an anomaly or a crappy product because nobody knows:
1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.

It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?

Do these other 19 nfl teams use PFF for grades or, like Cunningham, for stats?

No way they use their grades, just want to see your response.

I hope Blake Bortles gets some money out of this sham.

EDIT:

Please let me clarify. PFF's player grades are garbage. I honestly have no idea about their stats.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

You left the part out where I mentioned all of Kirk's INDIVIDUAL accomplishments that supported how much he improved INDIVIDUALLY.

How is Kirk not on any list for the most improved player?

Did you every think that maybe Kirk graded out better then Blake last year? Therefore although Blake, still rated below Kirk btw, improved more from his rating last year to this year?

Would love for Mudd or whoever botched the grade on Trent so badly, to sit down and go through that game play by play with Cooley and explain why they graded him the way they did.

The infallible Chris Cooley had a different grade for Trent in some game (btw what game are you even talking about? and what was the grade that has you in a fit?) therefore Chris must be right, right?

According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the sixth-best left tackle in the NFL, and the eighth-best overall. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.

But again, because of some unnamed game and unnamed grade its garbage, lol.

The quote you cite from Gunther Cunningham actually addresses the same criticism of PFF on this thread. He says player grading is where they fall short and uses the service for stats.

Lol, that is not what he said. (Did you even read the article?) He referenced specifically to grading exotic schemes defensive blitz scheme where assignments are unknown. And we're not talking about criticism because obviously they have several, any stat has weaknesses. The argument isn't over whether or not PFF has flaws, of course it does, the argument is over whether or not 'its garbage' or should be discounted out of hand.

The issue is how can they grade a player when they don't know the play or the players' responsibility. Umm, . In fairness, he does mention the grading of one player where he did agree with PFF.

Lol, c'mon really? grading of one player?

Cunningham is speaking over the phone to The MMQB, but he sends a picture of his oversized computer screens, on which he’s using PFF’s play analysis tool to sort defensive plays based on the Cowboys’ offensive formations

Cunningham still records some of the same statistics on his own, including time to throw or defensive targets (mostly out of habit), but he and defensive quality control coach Matt Raich lean on Pro Football Focus to shave time off their research.
Before the Cowboys game, for instance, it took them less than 30 minutes to pull up all the shotgun plays Dallas had used during its previous five games. They were able to discern the personnel groups, in part, by looking at the play diagrams and corresponding video footage.“As soon as you get an idea what the team is doing, it helps with guys like Ndamukong Suh and Ezekiel Ansah, because you can say, when they’re in shotgun, pin your ears back and go get ’em,” Cunningham says. “It’s not guesswork.” If the Lions were playing New England, Cunningham adds, he could quickly sort the PFF database for all offensive plays with unbalanced lines to help prepare for the Patriots’ eligible/ineligible gambit

.

They screwed Trent's grade up big time

You keep saying this but where is your proof? Based on what? How did they screw up Trent's grade?
Again this is their overall on Trent:
According to Pro Football Focus, the 2016 Pro Bowler was ranked as the sixth-best left tackle in the NFL, and the eighth-best overall. Williams allowed just 19 total quarterback pressures and two total sacks in his 14 games.

1. who graded it,
2. the standard it was graded by,
3. the bias of the grader
4. how quickly the grade was churned out,
5. how many times the play was watched,
6. or the grader's knowledge of Trent's responsibility on a given play.

The information on their process is out there, you just choose to plead ignorance to their process.

It's not shocking that a person in a position of talent evaluation would rely on an outside service for stats, I seriously doubt that any GM or coach relies on PFF for grading a game performance. It's just common sense, why would they rely on strangers who don't know what the responsibilities are?

Who said they rely on PFF? No one.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...ayers-in-2015/

Blake Bortles is on the list after leading the Jags to 5-11.

Where is Kirk Cousins?

All he did was go from benched to leading the league in completion %, setting franchise records, leading 4th quarter comebacks and taking a team with a 30+ preseason power ranking to the playoffs. All with one of the crappiest running games in the league.

PFF is garbage actually.

Cousins co-recipient of PFWA most improved player | CSN Mid-Atlantic

I guess Kirk Cousins and Josh Norman are ok, but I mean they don't grade out like David Amerson or Blake Bortles.

[30gut]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-senior-bowl/

PFF FORMS PARTNERSHIP WITH REESE’S SENIOR BOWL
“As we built our rosters for the game, we have found their information to be helpful in separating several players from a statistical standpoint,” said Reese’s Senior Bowl Executive Director Phil Savage.

This year, PFF will also have a team of its top analysts in Mobile to break down player performance during Reese’s Senior Bowl practices. They will be using that data, as well as their data from the 2014 and 2015 FBS seasons, to create a series of truly unique scouting profiles on Reese’s Senior Bowl players to be published on their website in the weeks leading up to April’s NFL draft.

[JoeRedskin]

^^ C'est la vie

[Alvin Walton]

Those grapes would have been sour anyway.

[REDSKINS4ever]

I hope he learns to stay disciplined and not go for double moves a lot.

[That Guy]

also you need to compare systems. if you play in seattle you only play cover 2/3, so a good man corner like revis would basically be wasted there. from what i recall amerson was more of a zone guy, but walt harris also had a career year after leaving. d hall played much better for us after the raider cut him too, so it happens.

you can't assume someone's success elsewhere would translate here 1 for 1.

as yeah, because of injuries we could have used him. if culliver and breeland both play 16 games, he would have been on the bench most of the year.

[over the mountain]

PFF is a good reference to be considered and weighed by any fan-atic. i dont like how every time i go on there, i cant find what i am looking for and seems like you to have to pay to see anythign worthwhile.

It does have known acknowledged faults.

1. it grades per play but if the graders dont know the play call, how can you really judge a play. what grade does each O line player get when leribeus was snapping the ball early and no one was ready? does trent get a -2 for that sack where he didnt move bc leribeus screwed up?

2. arbitrary. "So if a 0.5 was given for a good short pass, what exactly is a good short pass? The two touchdowns thrown by Aaron Rodgers to Randall Cobb for touchdowns Monday night vs the Chiefs should constitute as good short passes and maybe more because of the congestion that generally occurs in the red zone. Apparently not though, because PFF graded them out as non impact throws because they were simple speed outs that the QB was “expected to make.” The issue that I have with this is that if this is so easy, then why can’t so many other QBs score as consistently, and with as much ease, as Rodgers does in the red zone? Rodgers should absolutely deserve some credit for recognizing the situation, making pre-snap adjustments, and flinging it to Cobb in 0.3 seconds. Also, is PFF really trying to tell me that over 400 years of NFL and college coaching experience (see Step 4 above) can’t tell you that Aaron Rodgers had a phenomenal game yesterday?"

The Issues That Surround Pro Football Focus - Paradime Time Sports

3. rushed work. cooley brought this point up. how can they possibly effectively grade every player every play and have the grades out by monday or tuesday? cooley thinks they are rushing it.
------

bottom line imo - its not perfect but the guys at PFF are trying to enact objective grades for a subjective subject matter and i tip my hat to them. each person can give PFF grades what ever weight they want.

-----------------

amerson - i think his attitude and personality was the opposite of what SM wants in his locker room. i always found amerson to be wanna-be male model celebrity first, football player second. amerson was suspended last year for being late or missing a practice. i read an article about amerson a few months ago where he admitted he wasnt taking things as serious as he should and being waived really woke him up.

amerson is soft. it sent a message to players in the locker room that its more than where you were drafted. i think some of the more die hard players probably liked the message.

eat-sleep-breathe-shit football 24/7/365 .. or go play for somebody like the raiders.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

amerson is soft. it sent a message to players in the locker room that its more than where you were drafted. i think some of the more die hard players probably liked the message.

eat-sleep-breathe-shit football 24/7/365 .. or go play for somebody like the raiders.

Totally agree with the rest of your post, but this stood out.

Ditto.

[over the mountain]

where can i find "sacks allowed" stat?

[MTK]

Good for Amerson, but seriously who cares