2016 CBS/NFLdraftscout Big Board

[Schneed10]

Yeah obvious smokescreen

[That Guy]

well, they said he's at the top of our WR board, he could still technically be 20+ slots down the combined list. our FO probably does like him, but that doesn't really mean anything in and of itself.

[KI Skins Fan]

Take Ryan Kelly at #21

"Kelly was a three-year starter at center for the Crimson Tide. This is an easy player to evaluate. He has ideal size, toughness and awareness. In the run game, he has quick feet to fit up, turn and wall off defenders. He can create movement against opponents over his nose. He takes excellent angles to the second level and he has the agility to adjust in space. In pass pro, he shoots his hands in tight and steers defenders. He can bend and anchor easily and he's assignment aware. Overall, this player has Pro Bowl potential and should be ready to start Day 1."

Then, trade up (Yes, I wrote up) in the 2nd Round and take a D-Lineman with a 1st Round grade who slipped into Round 2. There are so many exceptional D-Linemen this year that they can't all be drafted in the 1st Round.

[30gut]

Do you have Kelly as your 21st(ish) rated prospect?

I don't have him anywhere near top 20. And the reason why I don't have him rated that high is precisely for the same reason that you want to trade up: a deep draft at the D-line position.

I'm philosophically opposed to trading up in the early draft......UNLESS we first traded back and used those picks to move up.

Now if Conklin or Decker fall to 21? I'm in on that....move them to OG then Long to Center.
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[KI Skins Fan]

I don't rank players at all. I just trust certain people who do it for a living. Also, I know which players I've seen who I like for our team.

I believe that there is no such thing as true BPA pick in any draft beyond the first five or ten picks. I heard Brian Billick say that, in the many draft rooms he's been in, it's uncanny how the BPA always matched up with a team need. Human nature and common sense come into play. So, I don't think Kelly needs to be ranked in the Top 25 by the Redskins to be picked in the 21st spot by them.

We badly need a starting center. Also, I believe it would be nearly a sin to miss out on a good interior defensive lineman in this draft. I'm hoping we get both and I don't care how it's done. I'd be fine if we took a D-Lineman at #21 and C Nick Martin of ND in the second round.

Kelly and Martin are the only centers I like in this draft. There's no reason to draft a backup C later, IMO. But what do I know compared to SM?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I don't rank players at all. I just trust certain people who do it for a living. Also, I know which players I've seen who I like for our team.

I was only asking where you rank Kelly because this thread is all about where players are ranked on the "Big Board".

Tangent: I think during the run up to the draft is imho the time when you get the least accurate information about draft prospects. NFL team's are notoriously protective of their draft thoughts. They often times engage in pumping or sinking draft opinion based on information they purposefully feed to their draft media counterparts. The draft media relies on this (often purposefully false) information in part because there are simply too many prospects to accurately evaluate/rank. Case in point was Miles Killebrew; who was being talked up as a big hitting safety but the player the draftniks described wasn't the player that appeared on the available game tape. Trust. But verify.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I believe that there is no such thing as true BPA pick in any draft beyond the first five or ten picks.

Completely disagree.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

...I heard Brian Billick say that, in the many draft rooms he's been in, it's uncanny how the BPA always matched up with a team need.

IIRC Billick said that during the combine? I suspect we have different understanding of what he meant.

I think he was referring to 2 circumstances: (1) no team every admits/thinks they "reached" for a player; they always claim the player they selected was "the BPA on their board" (2) draft boards can become artificially manipulated by internal team "needs" or GMs or HCs who have pull in draft boardrooms

So, I don't think Kelly needs to be ranked in the Top 25 by the Redskins to be picked in the 21st spot by them.

I completely disagree.
For any pick to make sense to me they need to be ranked in the range where they are selected.(Unless of course its a situation where a player slated to go higher falls to a lower pick) What this sounds like to me, is justification of a reach.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

We badly need a starting center. Also, I believe it would be nearly a sin to miss out on a good interior defensive lineman in this draft.

I'm confused. You're advocating passing over, by your own account "good interior DL", to select Kelly. Then advocating trading up to get a DL because it would be "sin" to miss out on this year's DL.

I also disagree with our level of "need" at the Center position, and the general idea of drafting for need. In my view free agency is about need not the draft.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I'm hoping we get both and I don't care how it's done. I'd be fine if we took a D-Lineman at #21 and C Nick Martin of ND in the second round.

I could certainly get on board with that. But, net-net I'm don't have Center as a top area to address for this team. And I believe there is a good chance a solution is found internally between Josh, Arie and Spencer.

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

There's no reason to draft a backup C later, IMO.

Imo there are a bunch of reason to draft an OL that could be Center later in the draft. Depth, development, versatility or it could simply be that OL is the BPA.

[Bangee7]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

...

I believe that there is no such thing as true BPA pick in any draft beyond the first five or ten picks. I heard Brian Billick say that, in the many draft rooms he's been in, it's uncanny how the BPA always matched up with a team need. Human nature and common sense come into play.

....

We badly need a starting center. Also, I believe it would be nearly a sin to miss out on a good interior defensive lineman in this draft.


....

I couldn't agree more with these thoughts.

After Free Agency, NT and Center are the biggest holes.

I don't really care about the order...just hoping we could get starting caliber for each area.

The good news, from what the "experts" say, there does appear to be several quality selections at each spot.

For my guess...

we trade back a few spots & still pick up Jarran Reed.
Then we draft a starting center in the 2nd.

After that, it's all gravy for me.

[Irrefutable]

Originally Posted by Bangee7

I couldn't agree more with these thoughts.

After Free Agency, NT and Center are the biggest holes.

I don't really care about the order...just hoping we could get starting caliber for each area.

The good news, from what the "experts" say, there does appear to be several quality selections at each spot.

For my guess...

we trade back a few spots & still pick up Jarran Reed.
Then we draft a starting center in the 2nd.

After that, it's all gravy for me.

very good idea, however there are only 2 good centers (Kelly and Martin). They may be gone at pick #53

[Bangee7]

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

very good idea, however there are only 2 good centers (Kelly and Martin). They may be gone at pick #53

There's also Jack Allen (Mich St) that some scouts think could be starter in the NFL as a rookie.

But, let's agree that there are only 2 real considerations at C, that still doesn't mean we can't package up something to move up in round two.

We don't have to stay at #53.

[30gut]

I think Ogbah is the player draftniks want Spence to be.

Ogbah has better production and all his production came against equal comp where Spence spent his final season against inferior.
Ogbah is bigger, faster, stronger and is clean off the field.

I'm curious what makes you think is more boom/bust then any other prospect?


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[KI Skins Fan]

I just can't imagine Elliott slipping to #21. My fear is that the Cowboys will take him at #4. He would be a beast behind that outstanding OL of theirs.

I don't see Rankins slipping all the way to #21 either.

If one of them were to fall to us, we'd probably set the record for least time on the clock.

[Evilgrin]

A'Shawn Robinson seems like a safe pick, where as Billings has alot of boom or bust potential. I wish I knew what teams really think.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Another plus for Robinson is that he doesn't turn 21 until next off season. Can he play NT though? Billings is a true NT, although Robinson reminds me of a stronger Jay Ratliff and he did well at NT

[30gut]

Can't say that I agree much at all w/ the draft philosophies posted recently.

I think entering a deep draft with the idea to move up is the wrong plan from the jump. My plan for a deep plan would be to increase NOT decrease the number of selections.

Also I'm all for targeting players but like Scott said that's for the later rounds. And the target should be players and not positions. Entering a draft with the idea to acquire position X is imho the wrong plan and leads down the slippery slope of ignoring BPA and drafting for "need"/"want".

If a center is sitting there and is the BPA then I'm all for it; but if not I hope we don't force or chase it.

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[KI Skins Fan]

^ Pure BPA is bullshit. I know you can't be convinced of that and I'm not interested in getting into some tangled debate with you about why it can't work. Nevertheless, even a cursory look at how teams draft should be enough to show you that pure BPA isn't practiced by anyone.