Official Bench Ramsey / Start Brunell Thread

[backrow]

Ramsey, Brunnell. Brunnell, Ramsey. Ramsey, Brunnell. Brunnell, Ramsey. I like Sonny!

[STPainmaker]

I think Gibbs will eventually learn that Brunell won't be a winning QB with our team he may take away mistakes but he makes our offense very one dimensional. The skins have made countless player personnel mistakes in his short tenure. I think we as a team need to realize this or perish Ramsey should be given this year, and if that doesn't work we must go another way. Another way doesn't include Brunnel.

[NYCSkin]

For two straight seasons Gibbs has tried to replace Ramsey--one through FA, the other through the draft (and we overpaid in both cases). That alone should confirm that Ramsey is not Gibbs' guy.
Now lets look at history. Doug Williams was eased in after Jay Schroeder got hurt, while Mark Rypien took Doug Williams' job when he was injured (does anybody remember Williams' tearing up on Channel 9?!?). I will be shocked if it is not Brunell is not tapped to start next week--regardless of how Ramseys neck is...

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

As much as I love Ramsey and would like to see him start next week, I can't really get livid with him if he goes with Brunell. Ramsey's three drives went like this - interception, fumble (recovered) and punt, and fumble (lost).

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

As much as I love Ramsey and would like to see him start next week, I can't really get livid with him if he goes with Brunell. Ramsey's three drives went like this - interception, fumble (recovered) and punt, and fumble (lost).

I'm with you, I want Ramsey to play and be successful, but the proof is right there, he played 3 series and threw 1 INT and fumbled twice.

I really can't blame Gibbs if he doesn't have 100% confidence in him right now, how can you?

With this defense and running game, the last thing we need is the QB turning it over.

Like it or not, this is the kind of team we are, we're going to win by running the ball and playing hard nosed defense.

Perhaps Brunell is the exact kind of QB we need right now. I don't understand all the hate people still have for him. He played well in the preseason and he was efficient again today. Nothing spectacular, but he didn't turn it over and he converted on some key 3rd downs to keep drives moving.

[skinsfan0201]

I'm sorry but you are going to blame Ramsey for the last fumble that he lost when he was linch pinned around the neck? Unfortunately the penately was not called but that certainly can not be blamed on him. That was a serious situation that no person would be able to with stand. Thankfully he was not severely injury (thank goodness). So please, when you are attributing mistakes, reasonably that one should be eliminated from the tally. In addition this was Ramsey's first game and he was bound to be a little nervous. How many chances did Brunell get last year without any production. His arm did not look too wonderful today either, and as far as mistakes, I think that it was rather difficult for Brunell to make many with the conservative offense that the Redskins called (Gibbs called) while he was in there, because of the great production that we were getting from our running backs. Compare that to the relatively fresh defense that Ramsey had to face in the beginning of the game and report back. Ramsey in essence had more success on the Bears, and if he had not sustained that injury would have continued to produce throughout the rest of the game in my opinion.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan0201

I'm sorry but you are going to blame Ramsey for the last fumble that he lost when he was linch pinned around the neck? Unfortunately the penately was not called but that certainly can not be blamed on him. That was a serious situation that no person would be able to with stand. Thankfully he was not severely injury (thank goodness). So please, when you are attributing mistakes, reasonably that one should be eliminated from the tally. In addition this was Ramsey's first game and he was bound to be a little nervous. How many chances did Brunell get last year without any production. His arm did not look too wonderful today either, and as far as mistakes, I think that it was rather difficult for Brunell to make many with the conservative offense that the Redskins called (Gibbs called) while he was in there, because of the great production that we were getting from our running backs. Compare that to the relatively fresh defense that Ramsey had to face in the beginning of the game and report back. Ramsey in essence had more success on the Bears, and if he had not sustained that injury would have continued to produce throughout the rest of the game in my opinion.

In the end it doesn't matter if the fumble was his fault or not, in the stat book he fumbled twice and threw an INT.

Look, I'm a Ramsey supporter. I hope he comes back strong and plays well. All I'm saying is it's obvious why Gibbs might not have a ton of confidence in him right now.

[DragoJT87]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm with you, I want Ramsey to play and be successful, but the proof is right there, he played 3 series and threw 1 INT and fumbled twice.

I really can't blame Gibbs if he doesn't have 100% confidence in him right now, how can you?

With this defense and running game, the last thing we need is the QB turning it over.

Like it or not, this is the kind of team we are, we're going to win by running the ball and playing hard nosed defense.

Perhaps Brunell is the exact kind of QB we need right now. I don't understand all the hate people still have for him. He played well in the preseason and he was efficient again today. Nothing spectacular, but he didn't turn it over and he converted on some key 3rd downs to keep drives moving.

I do like it. Unfortunately, so do 31 defenses in the NFL. So unless we plan to run the wing T like Navy, they are going to stop the run.

[JWsleep]

If the offensive PI call does not happen (didn't see a replay, so I have no idea what happened) Ramsey on that drive hit a long pass to Moss and a TD to Cooley. There would be no discussion here. In the 2nd half, Portis cam to life. That makes a QBs job easier. There was not much of a running game with Ramsey in there. Brunnell made some clutch 3rd down throws, but so did PR.

The main knock on PR is how long it takes him to read defenses. Brunnell does a better job there. But PR with time is a better passer. Still, Brunnell hit that great roll-out fake reverse play (best call of the game)--not sure Pat can hit that. So both have their strong points. I'd stick with PR. But there is just no doubt that Gibbs feels more comfortable with Brunnell in there--not sure if it's just because he overpaid for him, but really its because he admires Mark as a person, leader, etc. And he ALWAYS went with vets in the past. We'll see.

Gotta score more than 9 points, no matter who is in there. What is wrong with our red zone offense?!?!?! COME ON! That's got to be fixed.

[skinsfan0201]

Yeah, my point is that if the penalty was called, as it should have been, as ESPN certainly as well as Gibbs said that should have been called then he never would have fumbled. When you are reviewing those stats, you normally would discount that stat because normally that penalty would be called and the referees say that their main job is to protect the quarterback. Knowing that the circumstance of Ramsey being tackled around the throat would be the exception and not the norm you can not fault him for that particular turnover.

[12thMan]

As far as the hit and fumble on Ramsey goes, why are we go backing and forth on how it looks on the stat sheet and so forth? The fact is, he got hit very hard, and he fumbled - that's football!! Should it have been a penalty - of course. It was a very physical game and sometimes, unfortunately, these type of 'hits' get overlooked. The thing to really see here is that it seems like Ramsey has a penchant for these types of errors, whether they are of his own doing or not. And that's the thing the concerns Gibbs the most.

Beyond that, I've been a Ramsey supporter for the most part. But in my opinion, the offfense just runs a little smoother when Brunell is in there. It seems like the defense wasn't keying in on Portis very much and freed him up a little more. He just seems to command the offense a little more.

Now I don't won't to defend Brunell here, but I'm sure this is the most he's played with the first team offense this year. Seeing that Ramsey takes about 90% of the snaps in practice. Maybe, just maybe with a full week of game planning and practicing with the first team, things would have looked a little different for 'Scott' Brunell.

The only way I think Gibbs will solve this QB dillima, that he has created, is to trade either Ramsey or Brunell. And it's very unlikely that he will trade the latter of the two.

[offiss]

Bottom line Gibbs doesn't like Ramsey, but in part because he looks foolish with the Brunell trade, and the 43 mil we gave for a washed up backup at best and is dying to justify it, Gibbs wont tolerate turnovers? He sure did last year with Brunell for 8 games in which if Brunell just didn't allow the opposing defense to score we would have won 2 more games. Ramsey hangs in the pocket and tries to make play's, Brunell? Seem's to me all Brunell has to do, and all he does is try not to turn the ball over so he can be the apple of Gibbs eye, forget about marching the team downfield. I really would like to know what anyone saw in Brunell sunday to say that's our guy? 70yds passing in 2 1/2 quarters, you have to be kidding me! We had a whopping 3 fieldgoals.

I didn't see all the press confrence but Gibbs and the staff apparently didn't allow Patrick back in because of their concerns for his neck, I really hope Gibbs isn't useing this to get the teachers pet back on the field?

If we are to do anything this season Ramsey has to be the guy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gibbs did a great job down the stretch as well, allowing the bears another opportunity instead of selling out to make a first down or 5 extra yards to put us in fieldgoal range in a 2 point game, IMO Gibbs is still coaching scared, and that fear is permeating both QB's, not just Ramsey.

[jdlea]

Okay, if everyone is so Ramsey afraid is gonna fumble or throw the game away with INT's we will never have to worry about that with Brunell. Because if we ever face a team who puts up 21 points we won't be in the damn game. That's fine though, it's the reason the Redskins are a losing franchise now. Everyone wants to "win now." Problem is with Brunell, we're not gonna win. If Brunell plays the way he did this week against Dallas and Dallas's O plays anywhere near the level they did we're gonna get torched. I would rather Ramsey come in and throw 20 picks on downfield balls then watch Brunell get off of the pocket and throw the ball out of bounds on third downs.

I'll agree, the pick Ramsey threw was horrendous. The sack that forced the first fumble was probably his fault, but we got it back. The last sack that he lost was all the offensive line's fault. He didn't even finish his drop before his head got taken off. I don't wanna hear, oh Jansen's thumb, to hell with that. They got Ramsey killed. He didn't have time to get out of the way, the same damn thing would have happened to Brunell, but they didn't pressure Brunell. And they didn't need to. The reason I don't like Brunell? He was on pace to throw for about 120 yards on the day. That is terrible.

Next week we get Dallas and Demarcus Ware who looks like a beast. He's gonna eat up which ever QB we have in so I don't know how much I care who starts. I know one thing, if Brunell starts, they won't win. Just like last year when he started on Monday Night and everyone wanted to swear up and down that it wasn't his fault the Skins lost the game, but hey, he looked good against a whole bunch of guys who don't even play football now in the preseason...and he got hurt last year, so he never really got a fair shake. When does Patrick get a fair shake? When he leaves town? We can start Brunell and have the exact same year as last year or we could take a chance on Ramsey and see if maybe we can stop drafting in the top 10.

Bottom line: There's more potential to build a winning team with Ramsey, but nobody cares because Brunell doesn't make mistakes. Know what else he doesn't make? Any big plays. Does anyone remember last year? We looked exactly the same Sunday when Brunell was in. If that's what Joe Gibbs is looking for in a QB he needs go back into retirement because he's never gonna win again.

[jdlea]

Nothing made me more embarassed to be a Redskins fan then when Ramsey was getting booed by the fans. The game was 0 - 0. Ramsey had thrown a pick...the defense held. The Bears didn't score. The INT basically got wiped away. I do agree Ramsey should protect the ball better, but I think there are times the line needs to protect him better.

[SmootSmack]

I believe that if healthy then Ramsey should be the starter. We will never know what value he is to us-whether as our QB or as trade bait-if we don't give him the opportunity to start on a consistent basis for an extended period of time.

However, two things bother me about what I'm reading (or my interpretation of what I'm reading) on several posts here. It should be remembered that the strength of our team is our defense and our running game. It's as simple as that. So while I enjoy seeing big plays and an exciting aerial attack, the best QB for this team is not necessarily one who's going to be make SportsCenter's Top 10. It's someone who puts the game in the hands of our defense and running game, and doesn't take opportunities away from them. I believe Ramsey is fully capable of being that QB. He doesn't need to be a superstar highlight reel to lead this team. Just a smart QB.

Secondly, I almost get the feeling (and I have a feeling I'm not alone) that some people here won't be happy unless Ramsey is the person at QB, regardless of whether we win. I don't know about the rest of you but first and foremost I'm a Redskins fan, whoever lines up behind center.