Who is Kirk Cousins?

[Chico23231]

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?

I think it's ridiculous to say he CAN'T throw the ball downfield. We've already seen him do it multiple times since he's been a Redskin. The last two weeks he's put a couple of deep balls right on the money to Jackson.

I don't think it's a trust issue anymore, although I think it WAS one earlier in the season. Particularly against Miami and Atlanta.

You have to remember that we didn't have Jackson most of the season. Still, no excuse not to try and take some deep shots. It's a good question and one that needs to be addressed.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think it's ridiculous to say he CAN'T throw the ball downfield. We've already seen him do it multiple times since he's been a Redskin. The last two weeks he's put a couple of deep balls right on the money to Jackson.

I don't think it's a trust issue anymore, although I think it WAS one earlier in the season. Particularly against Miami and Atlanta.

You have to remember that we didn't have Jackson most of the season. Still, no excuse not to try and take some deep shots. It's a good question and one that needs to be addressed.

most of the routes are short...Im not really talking deep ball, which we he doesn't throw much at all either.

Im talking the mid routes...balls throw over 10 yards to 20 yards, 25 yards. The o coaching staff doesn't have him throwing these pivotal routes. Why is that? the pass protection is better, so there is more time.

Cousins seems limited

[over the mountain]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

Its either

A) They don't trust him

or

B) He cant

Which one folks?

Neither one but you already knew that.

in 2014, w 204 drop backs, Kirk had 27 passes go for more then 20 yards, 8 passes over 40. He can certainly deliver the long ball.

this year, w 363 drop backs, he has 26 and 4 respectively.

for whatever reason, when desean went out play 3 of week 1, we just didnt have a replacement. Desean is just now getting back to full speed and hopefully shots down field will open things up.

lack of down field passing and inability to run the ball = very limited, predictable offense.

Kirk Cousins: Career Stats at NFL.com

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

most of the routes are short...Im not really talking deep ball, which we he doesn't throw much at all either.

Im talking the mid routes...balls throw over 10 yards to 20 yards, 25 yards. The o coaching staff doesn't have him throwing these pivotal routes. Why is that? the pass protection is better, so there is more time.

Cousins seems limited

He can make those throws as he had an in breaking route to Garcon right after the pick. He had two nice short post TD passes last week that were into tight windows that went for TD's. What are you looking at??

He's a system QB that needs a clean pocket to be an effective QB. He obviously does not have the talent level of a Cam Newton.

[NoCalHail]

I know a lot of people like to point to Jackson going out as the reason for the lack of downfield passing, but look around the league and you will see plenty of plays being made downfield that aren't to #1 WRs or guys considered "burners"

A lot of it is play design. I think in general a WCO is not a scheme with a ton of downfield passing. It's about WR's catching the football in space and racking up YAC. What this requires though is very good route running, timing, and the ball being delivered so the WR can catch the ball without breaking their running stride.

Watch the Pats offense and you will see what our offense should probably resemble. You will see Edleman catching most his passes at about 4-5 yards out, but he is running in full stride when the ball hits his hands.

DeSean Jackson adds an additional wrinkle to the offense because of his game breaking speed, but it's not like Gruden is re-designing the offense based on one WR.

It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense. They also largely used running backs that could catch the ball and emphasized screen passes with more importance than running from behind the los. And it was interesting too because McNabb threw a a great deep ball and intermediate level ball, but struggled with accuracy on what were considered the typical "easy" short throws of a WCO, so go figure.

[Meks]

Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho

[NoCalHail]

Also, since we are on the topic of "throwing downfield" Let's also remember that throwing downfield is more than being able to heave a ball 50 yards in the air.

It's being able to throw 25 yards on a bee line into the hands of a WR who has maybe a half step on a defender. In the NFL you aren't going to see very many instances of the easy toss to Jackson we saw against Carolina. Even burners are normally much better covered and you have to make a tight throw over their shoulder.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by Meks

Pass pro sucked most of yesterday, wasnt alot of time for plays to develop to take shots downfield...
I really wish we would take more shots and go deep much more often tho

Even in the Saints game, Cousins threw short. YAC was the real story of that game. When you go up against better pass defenses, you need to make better, tougher throws.

[Bucket]

People going to be really upset when Gruden is going to back next year and Cousins..

Per Mike Silver today.

Not me though. As it shows the Organization is finally taking a step in a consistent level and ignoring the agenda fans.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Why is our coaching staff reluctant to have Cousins throw the ball down the field:

I don't think trust or ability is the issue when it comes to downfield passing.

I think Kirk has a decent enough arm. And I believe Jay/McVay have a lot of faith in Kirk as QB.

I think the coaching is the main reason for lack of downfield passing.

I think there has been such an emphasis placed on 'not taking sacks' and getting the ball out quick that it has come at the detriment of the main reason to throw the ball in the first place: chunk yardage.

This passing offense is largely imho geared towards 'replacing the run game'.
We don't throw the "big ball".

The offense is 30th in passes over 25 yards.
30th.

We're 22nd in YPA (up from 30th helped in large part by the Saints game where the huge jump in YPA came from 80% yards after catch)

I think the coaches do a poor job of scheming 'big throws'.
I think Kirk sticks closely to the 'don't take sacks' mantra.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I don't think trust or ability is the issue when it comes to downfield passing.

I think Kirk has a decent enough arm. And I believe Jay/McVay have a lot of faith in Kirk as QB.

I think the coaching is the main reason for lack of downfield passing.

I think there has been such an emphasis placed on 'not taking sacks' and getting the ball out quick that it has come at the detriment of the main reason to throw the ball in the first place: chunk yardage.

This passing offense is largely imho geared towards 'replacing the run game'.
We don't throw the "big ball".

The offense is 30th in passes over 25 yards.
30th.

We're 22nd in YPA (up from 30th helped in large part by the Saints game where the huge jump in YPA came from 80% yards after catch)

I think the coaches do a poor job of scheming 'big throws'.
I think Kirk sticks closely to the 'don't take sacks' mantra.

I don't see schemed square ins, skinny post, deep curls....I see quick slant, quick outs, wr screen, check down and TE who sit 5-8 yard zone pockets....

[30gut]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

...for whatever reason, when desean went out play 3 of week 1, we just didn't have a replacement. Desean is just now getting back to full speed and hopefully shots down field will open things up.

lack of down field passing and inability to run the ball = very limited, predictable offense.

All of the above are coaching problems in my eyes.

The list of teams (practically everyone btw) is filled with teams that have limited receiving corps like ours. Heck many of them have worse receiving corps even without DeSean.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by NoCalHail

...It's interesting because a lot of modern WCO take the approach Reid did with the Eagles, which was the basic WCO principles but they added in a lot more downfield passing than what you would see from say a Bill Walsh offense....

"WCO" is a broad and often abused term.
But even the 'original' Bill Walsh WCO threw the ball downfield. And while throwing the ball quick and short is an aspect throwing the ball intermediate and downfield are certainly parts of the WCO. Deep outs, Digs, Comebacks, Post, Corners are all staples of Bill Walsh WCO.

Ironically it was Jay's brother that said ~'what do you call a coach and QB driving around throwing "hots"....dumb and dumber'

Bill Walsh even warned about "not being seduced by the relative ease of completing 3-step drop passes".

But you could argue that is exactly what this passing game is doing by design.

BTW 2 of top 5 offenses with passes 25 yards or more are WCO Green Bay #1 and KC #5.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I don't see schemed square ins, skinny post, deep curls....I see quick slant, quick outs, wr screen, check down and TE who sit 5-8 yard zone pockets....

Yup.

I'm sure part of it is because Garcon isn't great at separating on his own without the help of scheme. A lot of Jay's offense seems to be reliant on the player winning and making the play or scheme work. Rather then creating a scheme that allows the player to win. Its the difference between Kyle's playcalling with Garcon catching 113 at 11.9 ypc vs 68 balls at 11.1 ypc with Jay/McVay.

Neither here nor there but 2 routes Garcon does well are the skinny post and the dig.