Obama Care

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.

Please go back and find the post where I said that I do not want people to have health care.

Yes Frances system is falling apart unless a women likes to have a baby in a fire truck;
France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com

A worker only pays about 50% of their pay check for health coverage and still it is in a financial crises. Maybe they need to pay 75% of their pay check to make it better. France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Daseal

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.

I can't speak for FD , but few of us think 1) the Fed should do nothing , 2) " we think the US is better than everyone " . I think most people would have liked a bill that would help people in need .... example , INS Co. not being able to cut coverage , to help people that have type 2 diabetes , MS, MD , Cancer or even need help from medical costs as a result from car/industrial accidents . If the bill were smaller and condenced to help with the greatest need/s , I think would have been better . If , and I stress , if this bill causes small business to cut payroll , large business to also cut jobs , it could make things worse ? If the care that the working middle class suffers at the expense of provideing for people who won't work , that is IMO , not fiar or right . As far as tax hikes for bombs , we have not raised taxes since Clinton in 92 , our taxe rates our much lower today than 30 years ago . France , they do have some great health care on many levels . France is at the moment , moving towards some of what looks like our policies , to pay for the HC in France France Fights Universal Care's High Cost - WSJ.com.... The Health Care System Under French National Health Insurance: Lessons for Health Reform in the United States. I just hope/want the people who have worked their asses off for the past 20/30 years , to not have to sacrifice too much at the expense of lazy < and some people are > , not saying most . I also think many Americans , right or wrong do not have a ton of faith in Washington making good on promises ....we have been told for 40 years that spending more on ED/ Higher learning would cut the cost of education , costs have increased over 400 % since 1970 . We were also told that Tabacco legislation would lower HC costs , that also has not happened ......... maybe we get this right one day soon ..... we shall see ?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

FD - I do believe that, one hundred percent. Part of healthcare is people having access to healthcare. We have good care in this country, but people having access to it is the issue. You saying that the World Health Organization is for 'everyone having healthcare'. No shit. The world health organization wants everyone to have health insurance and access to care?

The fact that you don't want everyone to have access to healthcare is more shocking. I love how people skirt the whole France issue that have a socialized setup that provides amazing healthcare to all of their residents. We're one of the very few developed nations without national healthcare coverage.


Ranking 37th — Measuring the Performance of the U.S. Health Care System | Health Care Reform Center

Take a look at this, and tell me that we're #1. We're lagging, severely in a lot of areas. The U.S. has the best health care system in the world

Instead of blindly saying "The US is better than everyone" for every single category. Try to look and see that we're lagging behind a lot of countries in a lot of areas. That's not to say this isn't a great country, but we need to constantly improve to stay on top.

I'm sick of seeing people bitch about making this country better. Is the system perfect, absolutely not. It has flaws. But it's interesting, we have no problem with tax hikes to pay for bombs that cost billions, yet taking care of our own people, people lose control. Holy crap, you might have to provide decent insurance for your employees?!?!?!?! If you can't afford it, shut your doors and go get a job for someone that can.

This is ridiculous. People on this site are always talking about how the US needs to stop taking care of every other country and take care of ourselves. This is a step in the right direction. As matty said earlier, what's not fair is 60% of all bankruptcies come not from poor financial planning, but needing a medical procedure. That, in my eyes, is complete bullshit.

We need much more reform than we have now. But I'll take this for a start.

So now the dream of opening a business in the US is dependent on providing health care to all employees? Its easy to tell who has and has not run their own business.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So now the dream of opening a business in the US is dependent on providing health care to all employees? Its easy to tell who has and has not run their own business.

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

Ok , but what if one in 5 business have to cut 1 job , how would millions losing a job be a benefit ? Nobody is saying do nothing , I would be fine with screening for illness/disease in our public schools/universities , proving care / help with cost for things like MS , MD , Type 2 Diabetes or car/industrial accidents . But to your point about FD or people on the left caring more is not true IMO, why don't people on the left go open business and hire people and provide HC if they care more ? . Why can't we have a HC fund where we could donate money , that would help poor with Med Bills ? You know we have Foundations and organizations that we are free to donate to . Maybe people on the left are more comfortable paying for things they want with other peoples earnings ? Getting everyone into a house in the 90's did us alot of good , right ? I with you on helping others , just not with unintended consequenses that we usually get .

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

As a libertarian, I don't consider myself either left or right, but I can tell you the issue some people have with the "giving for the greater good" argument:

I have no problem with people who are willing to give their own money to people genuinely in need. But there is a problem when those on the left use the police powers of government to force others to pay for things like health care in exchange for keeping the people who make those promises in political power.

It's easy to be compassionate when you're using other people's money.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

Yea, I pay myself first then what is ever left after I pay my bills is what I pay my employees. Some months they don't make very much but we have some really big months and I really get a big pay check and throw them a small bonus. Once when I felt really nice I let one of them have the day off so they could attend their fathers funeral. They must like this because they have all been working here for over 10 years.

The left wants to take from others to do what they call help out other people. The right knows that a hand up is better then a hand out. After years and years of these failing social programs that do just enough to keep people poor the left has not figured out the part of the helping hand up. Well the left running the country know this because they have made a living out of promising the poor they will get them more money for their votes.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

Spread the wealth. Gotcha.

I think the policies and thinking of the right in general encourages the initiative of the individual. It fosters more of an attitude of self-reliance instead of being provided for by big government. "Self-concerned" implies that they don't care about anyone else. I don't think that's true.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Spread the wealth. Gotcha.

I think the policies and thinking of the right in general encourages the initiative of the individual. It fosters more of an attitude of self-reliance instead of being provided for by big government. "Self-concerned" implies that they don't care about anyone else. I don't think that's true.

Nice post GM. You are spot on IMO about initiative and self-reliance . Two examples , 1) in 2003 I guy blew through a parking lot , on to the highway and slammed me , pretty much destroying my car . We < Va. > a few years earlier had Gov. Gilmore ( R ) , reduce the car tax 70% , the result was I bought a newer $20,000 truck .Had we still had to pay the full tax rate , I would have bought a 5,000 truck , which the state would have collected less in taxes , and less fuel efficient . 2) with lowering of Capitol gains taxes < NG / Bush > I trade more , win for me , more taxes for uncle Sam .

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

Would the position of " the left "be .... If john gets an A , and Susan gets an F , that we should change Johns A to C and Susans F to C for the common good ? Maybe for the good of college football the NCAA should ask the SEC to stop playing in the BSC Chamionship so the Big Ten or Pac 10 can win one .

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The right is selfish and says "F you" to the rest of society; The left is all about helping people and "the greater good".

Yah - No condescension in that sentiment.

No the right say's "F you" to stupid post like this. Funny how everytime the left uses the term (the greater good) they stick out their hands wanting everyone else money. Hey they do have organizations you can join to rais your own money to donate to who ever you want to help. Stop begging and start earing.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

We are all free to do as we please so long as we're not breaking the law. If FD doesn't want to provide care for his employees that's perfectly fine. When his employees vote for a Socialist Marxist Tyrant who collects a 90% tax on his business income that's fine too. All battles are won and lost in the ballot box, conservatives and liberals need to stop their insipid whining and go win in the f*cking ballot box battles.

p.s. Don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody and I don't expect you to but I will be damned if I don't vote.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

We are all free to do as we please so long as we're not breaking the law. If FD doesn't want to provide care for his employees that's perfectly fine. When his employees vote for a Socialist Marxist Tyrant who collects a 90% tax on his business income that's fine too. All battles are won and lost in the ballot box, conservatives and liberals need to stop their insipid whining and go win in the f*cking ballot box battles.

p.s. Don't worry conservatives, you don't have to do shit for anybody and I don't expect you to but I will be damned if I don't vote.

That's stupid, and an overstatement.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Do you not you feel a certain level of responsibility for your employees or is it all about everyone for themselves?

I can't speak for FD, but he wouldn't have employees with him for over 10 yrs. if he wasn't a good boss. I think most small business owners do have compassion for their employees, however at the end of the day as a business owner it's your second mortgage, or savings account, or whatever you used to acquire or build the business that's on the line every day. The business owner (and the 60 hr. + work weeks) is the ultimate factor in determining if the business suceeds of fails. If an employee decides not to show up for work you get it covered and move on. If a machine or part necessary to run your business fails you get it fixed and move on. All that comes out of profit.

As I said before, the employees won't take a pay cut when the economy goes bad, they won't cover the rent, they won't pay to fix a broken part...and they shouldn't. Their obligation to the business is to be there when they're supposed to be and put in good effort while "on the clock".

If the business fails, they go get another job. The business owner is the one that must declare bankruptcy or face years in rebuilding what he/she has lost.

That being said, there is a HUGE difference between small business and large, publicly held corporations controlled by boards. The shennanigans that go on at that level are a problem and are similar to what goes on with gov't. People on those boards are making decisions to benefit themselves using other people's money (shareholders).

I mean this is basically the fundamental difference between the left and right. The right is generally more self concerned and the left is generally more willing to give for the greater good of everyone else.

I do agree with your point, but with a clarification for what I think. Folks who are more conservative believe more in self-determination and responsibility and don't normally have or expect a safety net from someone else (gov't), hence that makes them more self-concerned. Folks on the left have a more collective approach and hence believe gov't has the responsibility to provide things. I think both sides have compassion, the difference is the right believes it is their choice to be compassionate the left believes gov't should decide because many won't do it on their own.