Who is Kirk Cousins?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Meks

This. Your were quoting a kirk hater credskinrule, <- you sir are grasping at straws with t-rex arms. Please leave such ramblings to yourself.

I'm not a KC hater, check the posts where it was announced he would start over Griffin. I do believe that if he was less up and down, we would be in first in this year's NFC East even with our other issues. KI made good points on the qbr, and I acknowledged that.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I'm not a KC hater, check the posts where it was announced he would start over Griffin. I do believe that if he was less up and down, we would be in first in this year's NFC East even with our other issues. KI made good points on the qbr, and I acknowledged that.

Give it about another 20 hours or so....
HTTR!

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I'm not a KC hater, check the posts where it was announced he would start over Griffin. I do believe that if he was less up and down, we would be in first in this year's NFC East even with our other issues. KI made good points on the qbr, and I acknowledged that.

You're a fair-minded person but you still don't get it concerning Kirk Cousins' ability level. What you seem to want out of Kirk is something that only elite QB's can deliver. Kirk can't do what you want him to do because he is an average NFL QB. I thought the QBR analysis I did would show you that Kirk is no less consistent than any other average QB, yet they are all inconsistent.

The bottom line is that you are currently getting out of Kirk as much as you have a right to expect of him. The primary way Kirk can get significantly better is for the rest of the team to get better around him.

We haven't won more games because our team wasn't good enough to win more games. The only reason we could possibly be in first place after today's game is that the rest of the division is playing down to our level.

[30gut]

I'm confused DY, doesn't your post above prove my point?

During their SB runs Kaep and Russ contributed to their teams success. They played better then they are now. Without their outstanding QB play in during their team's SB runs those teams aren't as good.

Meaning Kirk or whomever the QB that is coupled with a run game and defense still has to do their part to make a run. It takes more then merely 'propping' up and right now Kirk hasn't shown the production those QBs did then. (not saying that he can't get there but that he hasn't done it yet).

Even with "great" run game and defense it still takes very good QB play to make a SB run.
Football is and will always be a team sport.

[DYoungJelly]

Any number of QBs could have been plugged into the SF and Seattle teams over the past few years and had huge success.

Only one or two QBs could have won last year with the Patriots.

The surrounding cast of the SF and Seattle teams made both of those guys look much better than they actually are.

The only Seattle game I've watched this year was the first one against the Rams and Greg with two Gs made it look like Wilson couldn't read defenses very much like RGIII and Kap.

I think Kap and Wilson played extremely well during their runs much like RGIII did in 2012, just without the devastating injury. It has taken a a little more time to figure the other two out.

I also believe it is easier to play as well as they did when you have a pro bowl running back, and 2 pro bowl offensive lineman on each respective team when making the run. Plus, they had to score 19 points a game to win.

It's hard to not be good when that happens, Wilson is pulling it off this year though.

I think they were propped up. They will never have that type of success again because it is highly unlikely that either will develop the skills for success without a great defense and great running game.

EDIT:

To sum it up, I don't think either is a good QB, I do think they both played at a high level during their respective runs. I also think, Wilson has a slickness that Kap doesn't have that makes him better than Kap.

I wouldn't build a team around either guy. I think Kaps team friendly contract was smart, I think Wilson's was stupid and I'm glad Seattle paid him what they did.

[30gut]

DY you are making my point when you admit they played at a high level during their SB runs.

Even with a defense and a run game the QB still has to do more then merely be propped up to have a SB run.
It seemed like you were trying to diminish their play in their respective SB runs and equating their success with Kirks ability to have success in the same situation. My point is Kirk has not yet shown the ability to have the success those QBs had in their respective SB runs.

Those QBs current struggles makes my point. The QB has to hold up their end for the whole thing to work. Barring Trent Dilfer a SB contending team has more then a propped up QB.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

My point is Kirk has not yet shown the ability to have the success those QBs had in their respective SB runs.

You're right, he hasn't had a #1 defense or a #1 rushing game.

If Kap was a good QB he wouldn't be cut at the end of the year.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

You're right, he hasn't had a #1 defense or a #1 rushing game.

Lol, Wilson rushed for 849 of those rush yards and only threw 7 ints...is Kirk going to do that?

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, Wilson rushed for 849 of those rush yards and only threw 7 ints...is Kirk going to do that?

If Kirk had Wilson's running game and Wilson's defense, he would be better than 5-5.

[30gut]

You win dude.

If you're gonna flat out deny Russ has anything to do with the team's rushing success its hard to have a real discussion about this. No point in even getting into his playmaking, ypa, mediocre receiving corps and spotty OL. Sure, Kirk is as good as Russell Wilson. And because 2 'propped up QBs' made SB runs then we should re-up Kirk right now?

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

You win dude.

If you're gonna flat out deny Russ has anything to do with the team's rushing success its hard to have a real discussion about this. No point in even getting into his playmaking, ypa, mediocre receiving corps and spotty OL. Sure, Kirk is as good as Russell Wilson. And because 2 'propped up QBs' made SB runs then we should re-up Kirk right now?

That isn't close to what I said. Cheers.

Kap and Wilson contributed to their teams' success in the same way that RGIII made the 2012 run possible.

The former QBs had the benefit of top defenses as well and went further in my opinion as a result. Also, RGIII's injuries cut his run short compared to the other two. It has taken the league a little more time to catch up to the other two.

I believe that other QBs could have been inserted in either Kap or Wilson's slot during those years and had the same or similar success. (Case in point Alex Smith, who I would consider average.)

I believe that their ability to run, the 4 pro bowlers on their Olines and the two probowl RBs masked a lot of their deficiencies.

Not to say they didn't play well because they did, but many QBs would have success in that situation.

They are now being exposed for what they really are.

The reasons we should sign Kirk have nothing to do with them other than he has been in the polar opposite situation to those guys.

He doesn't have a running game or pro-bowl running backs or a top 3 defense to keep him from playing from behind.

The FO and GM have been able to see what Kirk really is without the benefit of those crutches propping him up. He has been average to above average and has had flashes of brilliance in the worst of situations.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Kap and Wilson contributed to their teams' success in the same way that RGIII made the 2012 run possible.

...I believe that other QBs could have been inserted in either Kap or Wilson's slot during those years and had the same or similar success. (Case in point Alex Smith, who I would consider average.)

I believe that their ability to run, the 4 pro bowlers on their Olines and the two probowl RBs masked a lot of their deficiencies.

Not to say they didn't play well because they did, but many QBs would have success in that situation.

The reasons we should sign Kirk have nothing to do with them other than he has been in the polar opposite situation to those guys.

He doesn't have a running game or pro-bowl running backs or a top 3 defense to keep him from playing from behind.

You said their performances were propped up by defense and running game right? But you also say they played well. But then you say other QBs would have had success. Its like a moving target.

You're dismissing their production because of team success. (btw Rodgers had the #3 ranked defense when they won the SB, Alex Smith has had a top 5 run game and defense with KC)

Sure the defense helps with team success but their production as QBs is their production. The Seahawks had all the pieces in place prior to Russell. Already had the pieces on defense, already had Marshawn Lynch. But their offense was pedestrian prior to his arrival. Seattle's offense went from 22nd by Football Outsiders to 1st. 1st.

Offensively Kirk is in as good position to be productive on offense. (Kirk has a pro-bowler on the OL, and in the backfield also) The weapons on offense are similar, you could argue that Kirk has better weapons now then Russell did then.

But, whatevs...diminish or vacillate on their play in those seasons all you want.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Offensively Kirk is in as good position to be productive on offense. (Kirk has a pro-bowler on the OL, and in the backfield also)

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Just like SF and Seattle a few years back!

Every time they are going back to the huddle on 2nd and 9 down 2 scores, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

Every time they are going back to the huddle on 2nd and 9 down 2 scores, that's exactly what I'm thinking.

You really think our personnel on offense is laughably inferior to theirs? Do you remember the Seahawks offense players?

Maybe Kirk just needs to add 800+ yards rushing?

You wanna trade DeSean, Garcon and Reed/Paul for Baldwin, Kearse and Willson/Helfert?

And their OL is everybit as spotty as ours.

And before Jay destroyed the run game Alf ran for 3 consecutive 1,000 yard seasons.

But sure Russ production was propped up by the same defense and run game that produced the 22nd ranked offense the year before and magically jumping to 1st when he took the helm.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

You said their performances were propped up by defense and running game right? But you also say they played well. But then you say other QBs would have had success. Its like a moving target.

Those three things aren't mutually exclusive. It's not a moving target.

1. Their performances were propped up by the defense and the running game.

2. They did play well.

3. Other QBs would have had success with those teams.

All 3 are 100% true.

The incredibly average Alex Smith was 4 points away from a Super Bowl.