Trayvon Martin Case

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

There is no shame in enlightenment, there is in ignorance and malice.

Which you've shown in abundance.

Originally Posted by saden1

I am taking bets on zimmerman getting convicted of at least manslaughter...you in?

Zimmerman is up for 2nd degree murder. I will bet you $1,000 (to be paid to my charity of choice, when I win) that he doesn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder.

I will also add the rider that the loser (You, saden1) has to use the following in their sig:

Hysterical bed wetter

You can pick a sig for me in the unlikely event that I lose.

This will remain in place for the entirety of this football season.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Which you've shown in abundance.



Zimmerman is up for 2nd degree murder. I will bet you $1,000 (to be paid to my charity of choice, when I win) that he doesn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder.

I will also add the rider that the loser (You, saden1) has to use the following in their sig:

Hysterical bed wetter

You can pick a sig for me in the unlikely event that I lose.

This will remain in place for the entirety of this football season.

Zimmerman is up for 2nd degree murder and manslaughter. Putting 1K on 2nd degree is just silly. Since you seem confident he will walk I will take $100 on at least manslaughter though. If he walks you win, if he is convicted of manslaughter or above I win, if it's a mistrial it's a wash.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by saden1

I am confused why this tape and who heard whose voice matters given the fact that Zimmerman himself said the voice wasnt his voice. I would think Zimmerman's perception matters more than the grieving parents of Martin or Zimmerman's mother.

“Somehow, he got on top of me,” Zimmerman said. “That’s when I started screaming for help.”

[saden1]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

“Somehow, he got on top of me,” Zimmerman said. “That’s when I started screaming for help.”

George Zimmerman Can't Hear Himself on 911 Call - Business Insider

People change thier tune once they realize thier freedom is at stake. Zimmerman has proven to be an unscrupulous character so you will have to execuse me for not giving him a pass.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by saden1

George Zimmerman Can't Hear Himself on 911 Call - Business Insider

People change thier tune once they realize thier freedom is at stake. Zimmerman has proven to be an unscrupulous character so you will have to execuse me for not giving him a pass.

From your own link: "I didn't take it as denial. I took it as not recognizing his own voice," Serino said.

You never had that kind of reaction hearing yourself recorded, saden?


edit: Just to be clear, Zimmerman has always said he was the one yelling for help on the tape. Listening to the tape with a cop...

When lead detective for the Sanford, Fla. police department Chris Serino played the recording for Zimmerman during questioning, Zimmerman said, "That doesn't even sound like me," Serino told jurors Monday.

Mark O'Mara, lead attorney for the defense then asked Serino if he thought Zimmerman was in denial.

"I didn't take it as denial. I took it as not recognizing his own voice," Serino said.

How saden turns, what seems to me a normal reaction to hearing yourself on tape, into denial that Zimmerman was the one screaming... I don't know.

Now that's just what Zimmerman and his neighbors say, but to claim Zimmerman "changed his tune" is pretty dishonest on Saden's part.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by saden1

George Zimmerman Can't Hear Himself on 911 Call - Business Insider

People change thier tune once they realize thier freedom is at stake. Zimmerman has proven to be an unscrupulous character so you will have to execuse me for not giving him a pass.

He didn't recognize his voice, that doesn't equate to being unscrupulous.

I know from your earlier coments you just want him found guilty and locked up for life. Your bigotry is astounding, given the evidence presented in the trial so far.

[RedskinRat]

And now the Judge is allowing the evidence of Martin's pot use.

There goes the innocent kid angle.

I see the case for the Prosecution circling the drain. Hope the jury understands what they're hearing and don't just go with a 'Guilty' from the heart.

[saden1]

I guess we should flush his "that doesn't sound like me" statement down the toilet too? The heart doesn't really come into play, just facts of the case and how insane it is to have someone like Zimmerman stalking people talking about they "always get a way with it" and shooting kids in the heart in the name of self-defense go free.


So no go on a bet? Pussy!

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by saden1

I guess we should flush his "that doesn't sound like me" statement down the toilet too? The heart doesn't really come into play, just facts of the case and how insane it is to have someone like Zimmerman stalking people talking about they "always get a way with it" and shooting kids in the heart in the name of self-defense go free.

So no go on a bet? Pussy!

Flush nothing out, including what the detective who was actually talking to Zimmerman at the time said.

In your post above, you flushed out the whole issue of Zimmerman being in the neighborhood watch (he called a lot of people in, for better or worse, without an incident), and whether the kid attacked him or vice-versa. You are flushing out a lot of important points in your diatribe, saden.

I assume you're talking to RR about your bet of conviction for manslaughter or above, but I'd like ask people about that: The charge is murder 2, so manslaughter's not even in play this trial, right?

Could be a real easy bet for you to take, RR. I don't think Zimmerman's getting convicted of any murder charge. I feel like betting is taking sides too much, but unless there's some very good evidence that appears (video of the confrontation would be a godsend one way or the other) it doesn't look good for saden's bet.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Flush nothing out, including what the detective who was actually talking to Zimmerman at the time said.

In your post above, you flushed out the whole issue of Zimmerman being in the neighborhood watch (he called a lot of people in, for better or worse, without an incident), and whether the kid attacked him or vice-versa. You are flushing out a lot of important points in your diatribe, saden.

I assume you're talking to RR about your bet of conviction for manslaughter or above, but I'd like ask people about that: The charge is murder 2, so manslaughter's not even in play this trial, right?

Could be a real easy bet for you to take, RR. I don't think Zimmerman's getting convicted of any murder charge. I feel like betting is taking sides too much, but unless there's some very good evidence that appears (video of the confrontation would be a godsend one way or the other) it doesn't look good for saden's bet.

Oh lord... if you're going to talk about facts and people going on diatribe and thinking with their hearts you aught to know that manslaughter is in play. It will be presented by the prosecutor for sure and the judge will allow it and the only thing left is whether the jury will knock down 2nd degree murder to manslaughter.

Forget RR, you can get that easy money too!

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by saden1

Oh lord... if you're going to talk about facts and people going on diatribe and thinking with the hearts you aught to know that manslaughter is in play. It will be presented by the prosecutor for sure and the judge will allow it so the long thing left is whether the jury will knock down 2nd degree murder to manslaughter.

Forget RR, you can get that easy money too!

Didn't know it was possible for the prosecution or judge to introduce a lesser charge now. Thought it was just one count of murder 2. LINK (I think the defense can plea bargain a lesser offense, but I don't think they'd do it when they're probably looking for acquittal in this case.)

To the more knowledgeable posters here, like JoeR, could manslaughter be in play this trial? If not, yeah I think you made a poor bet, saden.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

I guess we should flush his "that doesn't sound like me" statement down the toilet too? The heart doesn't really come into play, just facts of the case and how insane it is to have someone like Zimmerman stalking people talking about they "always get a way with it" and shooting kids in the heart in the name of self-defense go free.

So no go on a bet? Pussy!

Really? Generalizations as proof of motive and actions? Can you use a few more emotionally charged words in your description while claiming "the heart doesn't come into play". Rather than actual analysis of specific facts, you're going to ignore the unhelpful and speculative facts brought out at trial and simply paint the picture of what happened that night with a broad brush?

I thought more highly of you.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Really? Generalizations as proof of motive and actions? Can you use a few more emotionally charged words in your description while claiming "the heart doesn't come into play". Rather than actual analysis of specific facts, you're going to ignore the unhelpful and speculative facts brought out at trial and simply paint the picture of what happened that night with a broad brush?

I thought more highly of you.

Motive and action are pretty clear cut. A wannabe cop follows a kid of particular skin-tone around, violates all sorts of protocols and ends up shooting a kid. Circumstantial evidence is admissible in court and it boggles the mind to thing that a neighborhood watchman can get out of his car to look at street signs in a neighborhood with 3 street signs, make inconsistent claims how where he was jumped from, shoot and kill the kid he is stalking and claim self-defense.

We simply can't afford to set a precedence where we allow people to do what Zimmerman did and claim self-defense. I believe the prosecutor has laid out the case and I believe justice will be done and you will end up paying me.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by saden1

Motive and action are pretty clear cut. A wannabe cop follows a kid of particular skin-tone around, violates all sorts of protocols and ends up shooting a kid. Circumstantial evidence is admissible in court and it boggles the mind to thing that a neighborhood watchman can get out of his car to look at street signs in a neighborhood with 3 street signs, make inconsistent claims how where he was jumped from, shoot and kill the kid he is stalking and claim self-defense.

We simply can't afford to set a precedence where we allow people to do what Zimmerman did and claim self-defense. I believe the prosecutor has laid out the case and I believe justice will be done and you will end up paying me.

... and I don't think we should set the precedent for convicting people of crimes w/out requiring the State to prove all the lawful requirements of their case beyond a reasonable doubt. It's just not as simple and neat as you and Chico would like to make it.

[JoeRedskin]

As I understand it, the lesser, incorporated, offense is always in play. Thus, manslaughter is in play.

Saden1 - what's your bet? As I said, my confidence level is low but once the pot use gets admitted, its increasing. Do you honestly think murder2 is in play at this point?

I will bet $200, cash money, that he is found innocent of murder 2.

As to manslaughter, $25. I think that accurately reflects my confidence level of each.

As an aside ... my first defense WTF moment since the knock knock joke - why call Tracy Martin ... all you do is give him a chance to explain away his denial about recognizing Trayvon's voice, which he did. Had they not called him and simply left him as a rebuttal witness, you get to discredit his "Serino got it wrong". As it is, rather than a blot on the prosecutor's case, he becomes a non-factor.