The "Inside Word" on the QB Search

[MTK]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

You forgot to mention the 7 or 8 turnovers he's had in just two games. That puts Rex to shame.

Are we talking about Flynn?

He appeared in 5 regular season games this year with 6 TDs, 2 INTs, and 1 lost fumble.

Exaggerate much? lol

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Are we talking about Flynn?

He appeared in 5 regular season games this year with 6 TDs, 2 INTs, and 1 lost fumble.

Exaggerate much? lol

I'm talking about the two games that people like to point to(NE game last year). I think he had 7 turnovers(could have been 6) during those two games. I think Dirtbag made a post about it. Wasn't sure the exact amount, but I know it was insane considering he only played two games. Even 6 turnovers in 2 games is way too much.

[MTK]

Against NE last year he had 3 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 lost fumble.

For his entire career he has 9 TDs, 5 INTs, and 2 lost fumbles.

Maybe I'm missing something.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Against NE last year he had 3 TDs, 1 INT, and 1 lost fumble.

For his entire career he has 9 TDs, 5 INTs, and 2 lost fumbles.

Maybe I'm missing something.

9 TDs to 7 turnovers?...lol Not a good ratio. So he had 5 turnovers between the NE and Detroit game. Still a bit high considering both of them were bad defenses.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I think you may have skimmed over the two qualifying statements I made as conditions to going with the draft strategy I proposed.

First, I would do this if we sign Matt Flynn.

Second, I would do this if we have a good FA crop. Let's say, for example, that we were able to land QB Matt Flynn, WR Vincent Jackson, and C Chris Myers.

That would put us in a position to draft fewer players overall but more higher round players who could be difference makers for this team. I might even want to trade more picks to draft two first rounders or three second rounders. I want a draft class that looks something like this: OG David DeCastro, RB LaMichael James, FS Markelle Martin, OT Ricky Wagner, ILB Tank Carder. As far as I'm concerned, that could be our entire draft.

That would add eight good players to our team. What's wrong with that scenario?

It was late and I did skim so I previously missed your conditions of a good FA crop and signed Flynn so my bad. It doesn't really do anything to change my point though. What doing that does is reduce the quality of our depth and presumably the effectiveness of our special teams. You need veterans to hold many of the roster spots between 25-43 so you have proven players in case a starter goes down. The bottom of your roster is great for young players to develop long term but you really don't want to count on 10-15 first or second year players as starters or major contributors.

Even the scenario of fewer picks but them all being higher round guys, again that rarely (if ever) happens in the league.

[MTK]

Well, we're talking about a small sample, and a guy that doesn't play regularly. I wouldn't look too far into his stats either way.

[Eknox]

I truly don't see how we are going to get a QB worth anything, Cleveland has more to give to move up[ for RG3 and there will be competition for Flynn, don't want to give up the farm for Hoyer.There's just not a lot of options especially with other teams needing QB's also.
B][/B]

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Well, we're talking about a small sample, and a guy that doesn't play regularly. I wouldn't look too far into his stats either way.

Very true. That's why I think it's hard to give that guy big money based on his small sample AND his talent evaluation back when he was drafted. Some team will though no doubt. QB is such a high commodity.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I feel like a lot of people have changed their opinion on the whole trade picks to get your QB idea. I don't remember such a groundswell of support for Cutler

Not me...but your right. I wanted the Cutler trade and 90% of the people on here told me I was crazy. And now several years later we still have no QB...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

I love the idea of having over half of the team in their early 20's. This is one thing that a lot of 'skins fans complained about when Gibbs was here last - the team was one of the oldest teams in the league. I love the idea of building through the draft and adding just the right touch of young free agents. It's exactly what we should be doing. It tells me if most of those draft picks of Allen and Shanahan make the team, then the front office is doing a great job with their picks. So far, the majority have turned out to contribute.

NOthing wrong with building thru the draft.. Flooding the roster with 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players based on sheer volume however isn't a strategy for success.

Maybe I'll restate to clarify. In a 7 round draft where we hold picks in all rounds, a team can call 3 starters and a 2 backups an excellent draft, 2 starters and 3 backups a good draft and 1-2 starters and 1-2 backups an average draft.

2007 we had an awful draft. Landry was the only starter. HB Blades was the only backup.

2008 we had an awful draft. No starters. Davis was the only quality player, Jackson the only remaining backup.

2009 we had an awful draft. Orakpo was the only starter. Barnes the only remaining backup.

2010 we had an average draft. Williams and Riley are starters, Austin is a backup.

2011 we had a potentially excellent draft. Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson all look like starters. Helu looks like he will either start or be part of a strong rotation. Gomes, Paul, Royster, Hurt, Nield all are backups.

Replicating 2011 will be difficult simply based on averages that most drafts don't provide that level of depth. But since we had an excellent draft in 2011 we can afford to be more aggressive in moving up to get a player without the risk of not filling needed holes. We also don't have a need as we did last year to 'stock up on picks' in this draft for the sake of getting younger. The 2011 draft really just averaged out the 2007-2009 drafts in terms of the number of expected starters and backups from each draft.

If anything if we move back, we should be looking to acquire 2013 picks. That's what NE does better than anyone, build forward.

Nothing wrong with getting younger, but young for the sake of young doesn't build winners.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Eknox

I truly don't see how we are going to get a QB worth anything, Cleveland has more to give to move up[ for RG3 and there will be competition for Flynn, don't want to give up the farm for Hoyer.There's just not a lot of options especially with other teams needing QB's also.
B][/B]

Here are the QB who potentially could be available at one point or another (excluding draft picks) this offseason:
Peyton Manning
Kevin Kolb
Mark Sanchez
Chad Henne
Matt Flynn
Brian Hoyer
Kyle Orton
Matt Leinart

I didn't put Sam Bradford on the list because Fisher noted him as a main reason he chose St. Louis over Miami. But the Manning decision will impact at least 3-4 teams. Let's say for example Manning is released, signs with Arizona who trades Kolb to the Browns meaning they are no longer in play for RGIII. Or the scenario that SS put out there that the Jets sign Manning, then trade Sanchez here. Until March 8, the QB derby is all speculation. If Manning is free then many doors open.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

NOthing wrong with building thru the draft.. Flooding the roster with 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players based on sheer volume however isn't a strategy for success.

Maybe I'll restate to clarify. In a 7 round draft where we hold picks in all rounds, a team can call 3 starters and a 2 backups an excellent draft, 2 starters and 3 backups a good draft and 1-2 starters and 1-2 backups an average draft.

2007 we had an awful draft. Landry was the only starter. HB Blades was the only backup.

2008 we had an awful draft. No starters. Davis was the only quality player, Jackson the only remaining backup.

2009 we had an awful draft. Orakpo was the only starter. Barnes the only remaining backup.

2010 we had an average draft. Williams and Riley are starters, Austin is a backup.

2011 we had a potentially excellent draft. Kerrigan, Jenkins, Hankerson all look like starters. Helu looks like he will either start or be part of a strong rotation. Gomes, Paul, Royster, Hurt, Nield all are backups.

Replicating 2011 will be difficult simply based on averages that most drafts don't provide that level of depth. But since we had an excellent draft in 2011 we can afford to be more aggressive in moving up to get a player without the risk of not filling needed holes. We also don't have a need as we did last year to 'stock up on picks' in this draft for the sake of getting younger. The 2011 draft really just averaged out the 2007-2009 drafts in terms of the number of expected starters and backups from each draft.

If anything if we move back, we should be looking to acquire 2013 picks. That's what NE does better than anyone, build forward.

Nothing wrong with getting younger, but young for the sake of young doesn't build winners.

How Vinnie kept his job with those drafts that long is beyond comprehension. I know he only took credit for a couple of those years but still, I think he had a hand in many of them.

NE does an excellent job acquiring picks. They like to draft and accumulate 2nd rounders.

[NC_Skins]

The stupidity level is gaining record levels this early in the year as noted by this quote on another forum.

man if only we had lost more games. winning a couple of meaningless crap games this seasons is going to cost us 10 years of mediocrity. i do not get the reward versus cost equation most people are going through here who argued against tanking the season. if we had merely lost about 2 games on purpose we would have our QB of the future for the next decade. that value is far greater than a stupid win or two in a lost season.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Here are the QB who potentially could be available at one point or another (excluding draft picks) this offseason:
Peyton Manning
Kevin Kolb
Mark Sanchez
Chad Henne
Matt Flynn
Brian Hoyer
Kyle Orton
Matt Leinart

I didn't put Sam Bradford on the list because Fisher noted him as a main reason he chose St. Louis over Miami. But the Manning decision will impact at least 3-4 teams. Let's say for example Manning is released, signs with Arizona who trades Kolb to the Browns meaning they are no longer in play for RGIII. Or the scenario that SS put out there that the Jets sign Manning, then trade Sanchez here. Until March 8, the QB derby is all speculation. If Manning is free then many doors open.

Also Colt McCoy, Jimmy Clausen, and Vince Young

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Also Colt McCoy, Jimmy Clausen, and Vince Young

It's like digging through the trash can trying to find quality meal.