Trayvon Martin Case

[saden1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

As I understand it, the lesser, incorporated, offense is always in play. Thus, manslaughter is in play.

Saden1 - what's your bet? As I said, my confidence level is low but once the pot use gets admitted, its increasing. Do you honestly think murder2 is in play at this point?

I will bet $200, cash money, that he is found innocent of murder 2.

As to manslaughter, $25. I think that accurately reflects my confidence level of each.

As an aside ... my first defense WTF moment since the knock knock joke - why call Tracy Martin ... all you do is give him a chance to explain away his denial about recognizing Trayvon's voice, which he did. Had they not called him and simply left him as a rebuttal witness, you get to discredit his "Serino got it wrong". As it is, rather than a blot on the prosecutor's case, he becomes a non-factor.

I am saying noway he walks, either it's a mistrial or guilty. I'll take that $25 dollar bet...if he walks you win, he is convicted of manslaughter or above I win, if it's a mistrial it's a wash.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by saden1

I am saying noway he walks, either it's a mistrial or guilty. I'll take that $25 dollar bet...if he walks you win, he is convicted of manslaughter or above I win, if it's a mistrial it's a wash.

Can I get in on the action?

Same as above, except for $50.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Can I get in on the action?

Same as above, except for $50.

Done!

[firstdown]

I'll go on record and say if he is not charged with any crime there will be some form of unrest.

[Chico23231]

I dont think they will be riots, but I believe there will be protests and deservedly so if Zim is found innocent on all charges. LA riots were completely a different thing. There werent just a few bad apples in the LAPD, most of the police officers were criminals with badges under a culture of corrupt that spread way beyond just the LAPD.

Why should there be protests? Well most people think you should not be able to shoot an unarmed child even if you are getting beat up in an arguement you provoked.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Well most people think you should not be able to shoot an unarmed child even if you are getting beat up in an arguement you provoked.

'Unarmed child'. Also referred to as 'the assailant'.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

'Unarmed child'. Also referred to as 'the assailant'.

Was he committing a crime? Fact: No

Was he being harrassed by an unknown, creepy, armed man who hold zero authority over him? Fact: Yes

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Was he committing a crime? Fact: No

Right up to the point where he got physical with Zimmerman, no, he was not. Once he assaulted Zimmerman, yes. FACT.

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Was he being harrassed by an unknown, creepy, armed man who hold zero authority over him? Fact: Yes

He was being followed, yes. Harassed? We haven't had evidence he felt threatened.

Martin didn't know Zimmerman was armed, didn't know Zimmerman had no authority. What was preventing Martin from running back to the apartment he was watching TV at? Nothing. He chose, inadvisedly, to confront Zimmerman. FACT.

Creepy? WTF does that have to do with anything?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Was he committing a crime? Fact: No

Was he being harrassed by an unknown, creepy, armed man who hold zero authority over him? Fact: Yes

Sorry look up the def of harrassed. Talking about creepy wasn't it not Marting who used a racial slur. If it was the other way around thats all we would hearing about.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Sorry look up the def of harrassed. Talking about creepy wasn't it not Marting who used a racial slur. If it was the other way around thats all we would hearing about.

Apparently it only counts when it suits the purposes of race baiters.

This case has been worked so hard by the media I'm not surprised that some easily influenced fools are being led to a conclusion that the facts don't support.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I dont think they will be riots, but I believe there will be protests and deservedly so if Zim is found innocent on all charges. LA riots were completely a different thing. There werent just a few bad apples in the LAPD, most of the police officers were criminals with badges under a culture of corrupt that spread way beyond just the LAPD.

Why should there be protests? Well most people think you should not be able to shoot an unarmed child even if you are getting beat up in an arguement you provoked.

The way the PD handled the event was appalling. At the very least Zimmerman should have been arrested on the suspicion of murder.

Most people are too apathetic to riot. I can't imagine a situation where we (the silent majority) would show the Government our displeasure if it took more than a mouse click.

[Chico23231]

Hey fight or flight response to someone armed who coulda been trying to rob him(trayvon). Trayvon shouldnt have done it, it was quick response to an unnormal situation. Remember Trayvon is dead he didnt chance to collect the facts after the incident.

I know its a novel concept to some, but black kids can be freaked out by old white guys following them. I guess the more accepted way of thinking is a young skittle toting child-thug Trayvon causing old white ladies to grip their purses a little tighter as he passes. Thats not the case here, and where the young thug totes skittles, the creepy coward Zim totes a pistol.

We good if the picture was vise versa? We good if thuged out, armed, Trayvon asking Zim what he up too and Zim has the skittles? Justice would be blind and impartial? Yeah, not in this country.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Hey fight or flight response to someone armed who coulda been trying to rob him(trayvon).

You're going to have to use punctuation and better grammar for us to make sense of what you're saying.

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Trayvon shouldnt have done it, it was quick response to an unnormal situation.

Good, we're getting somewhere. It's Martin's poor decision that led to his death.

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Remember Trayvon is dead he didnt chance to collect the facts after the incident.

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I know its a novel concept to some, but black kids can be freaked out by old white guys following them. I guess the more accepted way of thinking is a young skittle toting child-thug Trayvon causing old white ladies to grip their purses a little tighter as he passes. Thats not the case here, and where the young thug totes skittles, the creepy coward Zim totes a pistol.

Aaaaand, there goes your credibility. You're a bigot and you don't even know it.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

Hey fight or flight response to someone armed who coulda been trying to rob him(trayvon). Trayvon shouldnt have done it, it was quick response to an unnormal situation. Remember Trayvon is dead he didnt chance to collect the facts after the incident.

"Fight or flight". No. Flight. Period. "someone armed" - Did Martin think Zimm was armed? Any evidence of that? He mention that to his friend on the phone? (Hint: No). Is there evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin was in imminent fear of physical assault before the fight ensued?

Trayvon is dead. If the reverse were true, and Martin claimed Zimm drew his gun, there was a tussle and Zimm ended up dead, guess what - Zimm isn't around to dispute it and Martin is free. Period.

I know its a novel concept to some, but black kids can be freaked out by old white guys following them. I guess the more accepted way of thinking is a young skittle toting child-thug Trayvon causing old white ladies to grip their purses a little tighter as he passes. Thats not the case here, and where the young thug totes skittles, the creepy coward Zim totes a pistol.

You completely lost me Chico. You keep playing the race card, making assumptions about motives and using emotionally charged language that borders on demagougery. If Martin was "freaked out by [an] old white guy following him", that's a big old tough sh** [By the way, how do they feel about "white hispanics"?]. Martin took matters into his own hands instead of calling the cops. In doing so, any chance at knowing what happened that night was ended. [BTW: If Zimm is such a f'ing "creepy coward" why not just pull the gun at the outset? Care to explain Zimm's thought pattern on that, 'cause it's clear you have a telepathic link to Zimm's thoughts to know them with such certainty].

You want to thug out. Fine. Guess what, when you walk through my neighborhood, this creepy white guy is going to be watching you b/c I have personally witnessed too many "thugged out" teens/young adults racing away from broken car windows, vandalism and outright assualt of my neighbors.

BTW - Did you read the testimony of Zimm's physical trainer - the guy call Zimm "soft" and physically inept and that was after a year of training. To me that creates some reasonable doubt that his self-defense claim is without merit.

Originally Posted by Chico23231

We good if the picture was vise versa? We good if thuged out, armed, Trayvon asking Zim what he up too and Zim has the skittles? Justice would be blind and impartial? Yeah, not in this country.

If "thugged out armed" Martin claims self-defense, can provide evidence that he was screaming for his life (or create, more accurately, cast reasonable doubt upon the prosecutor's claim it wasn't him screaming for his life), has an eyewitness who has him pinned on the ground by Zimm, can demonstrate injuries consistent with his description of how he was losing the fight, and consistently describes the fight to police and friends and the manner in which he was in fear of his life ...

Then yeah, Martin gets the same benefit of doubt that to which Zimm is entittled.

[Chico23231]

My points are clear and consistent. In hindsight, Trayvon should have never physically gotten involved with Zim. Like I said before, being followed, harrassed, by an armed creepy dude...Trayvon made a quick decision...he didnt know if he was being robbed, abducted, etc. Trayvon is not an adult and he made a decision that cost him his life...true. Death should be norm for his actions? No. And for the law to side with Zim and say this is justified with no penalty. Well we need to rethink alot of things and there should be protests.