Who is Kirk Cousins?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by Bishop Hammer

Kirk is not a rookie but he is not an experienced veteran either...

So we agree.

Also, didn't think this needed to be said but I'll state it clearly here.

Saying that Kirk is not a rookie is not the same as saying he's an experienced veteran.

There is room in between its not an either/or question.

[DYoungJelly]

2015 NFL Regular Season Standings - National Football League

We rank 25th in rushing yards per game.

We rank 24th in points allowed per game.

He has set franchise passing records this year.

He lead 2 game winning drives and 1 game tying drive with less than 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

Nobody is saying he is the second coming of Christ.

But, if a killer defense and a brutal running game can prop up Kapernick and Wilson, maybe, just maybe it could turn a QB who is setting passing records into a consistent winner.

For those saying he has something to prove, who do you want to replace him with?

The mock drafts are out there, everybody has a good idea of who the FA are going to be after this year. So name some names already.

Who do you want to start from scratch with next year?

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

...But, if a killer defense and a brutal running game can prop up Kapernick and Wilson, maybe, just maybe it could turn a QB who is setting passing records into a consistent winner.

First I want to say that sure maybe a killer defense and a brutal running game could prop up Cousins. That could happen.

But when you say 'prop up Kaep and Wilson' I think you are doing them a disservice. They weren't innocent bystanders to their team's SB runs. Both of them contributed to directly (rushing yards) and indirectly (limiting the backside pursuit on run plays) to making the 'brutal running game'. And its the running game/time of possension and those QB's respective lack of turnovers that actually helped those defenses excel.

Football is such a team sport, everything is interconnected. In your analogy Kirk doesn't provide the same contribution to the run game nor the lack of turnovers of Kaep and Russ. Also Kirk has opportunity to set passing records because of this staff's focus on the passing game. He's 10th in attempts in the league.

For those saying he has something to prove, who do you want to replace him with?

You realize saying he has something to prove doesn't mean he shouldn't be re-signed at the end of year. Like the FO, some prefer to wait and see before making a decision....and hopefully starting from scratch won't happen.

[CRedskinsRule]

see the Giants pregame thread, but KC is an inconsistent NFL capable QB. I doubt that changes. IF we had a consistent NFL capable QB on our roster, we would be in first place. We don't. Is there one in this year's draft - very likely. Nearly every draft has one or two qb's in there somewhere,
2014 Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, T Bridgwater all look real
2013 Landry, maybe Barkley
2012 Wilson, Luck
2011 Newton Dalton Yates (maybe)
2010 ok maybe not this one Unless we say Colt McCoy...
2009 Stafford, maybe Sanchez (not really though)
2008 Ryan, Flacco,

So hopefully our scouting dept, both Pro and College, are being diligent in their searches, and we get a couple real alternatives in here for next season.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

But when you say 'prop up Kaep and Wilson' I think you are doing them a disservice. They weren't innocent bystanders to their team's SB runs. Both of them contributed to directly (rushing yards) and indirectly (limiting the backside pursuit on run plays) to making the 'brutal running game'. And its the running game/time of possension and those QB's respective lack of turnovers that actually helped those defenses excel.

They had the same two QB's under center at the beginning of the year and now Seattle is 5-5 and SF is 3-7.

Wilson is .500 with the second best defense in the league and the most rushing yards per game in the league:

2015 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN

He has underperformed even after the team went out and acquired arguably the most difficult TE in the league to cover.

Kap has been benched because he is basically RGIII. The curtain was finally pulled down to reveal the real OZ.

Kirk is a game off Wilson with 24th ranked D and 25th ranked rushing yards per game.

I'm sticking with "propped up."

[30gut]

I'm confused DY, doesn't your post above prove my point?

During their SB runs Kaep and Russ contributed to their teams success. They played better then they are now. Without their outstanding QB play in during their team's SB runs those teams aren't as good.

Meaning Kirk or whomever the QB that is coupled with a run game and defense still has to do their part to make a run. It takes more then merely 'propping' up and right now Kirk hasn't shown the production those QBs did then. (not saying that he can't get there but that he hasn't done it yet).

Even with "great" run game and defense it still takes very good QB play to make a SB run.
Football is and will always be a team sport.

[DYoungJelly]

Any number of QBs could have been plugged into the SF and Seattle teams over the past few years and had huge success.

Only one or two QBs could have won last year with the Patriots.

The surrounding cast of the SF and Seattle teams made both of those guys look much better than they actually are.

The only Seattle game I've watched this year was the first one against the Rams and Greg with two Gs made it look like Wilson couldn't read defenses very much like RGIII and Kap.

I think Kap and Wilson played extremely well during their runs much like RGIII did in 2012, just without the devastating injury. It has taken a a little more time to figure the other two out.

I also believe it is easier to play as well as they did when you have a pro bowl running back, and 2 pro bowl offensive lineman on each respective team when making the run. Plus, they had to score 19 points a game to win.

It's hard to not be good when that happens, Wilson is pulling it off this year though.

I think they were propped up. They will never have that type of success again because it is highly unlikely that either will develop the skills for success without a great defense and great running game.

EDIT:

To sum it up, I don't think either is a good QB, I do think they both played at a high level during their respective runs. I also think, Wilson has a slickness that Kap doesn't have that makes him better than Kap.

I wouldn't build a team around either guy. I think Kaps team friendly contract was smart, I think Wilson's was stupid and I'm glad Seattle paid him what they did.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

see the Giants pregame thread, but KC is an inconsistent NFL capable QB. I doubt that changes. IF we had a consistent NFL capable QB on our roster, we would be in first place. We don't. Is there one in this year's draft - very likely. Nearly every draft has one or two qb's in there somewhere,
2014 Blake Bortles, Derek Carr, T Bridgwater all look real
2013 Landry, maybe Barkley
2012 Wilson, Luck
2011 Newton Dalton Yates (maybe)
2010 ok maybe not this one Unless we say Colt McCoy...
2009 Stafford, maybe Sanchez (not really though)
2008 Ryan, Flacco,

So hopefully our scouting dept, both Pro and College, are being diligent in their searches, and we get a couple real alternatives in here for next season.

You gotta be kidding when you say we'd be in first place if we had a better QB. The entire team got their asses kicked in our losses, except for the Atlanta game which we wouldn't even have been in at the end if Kirk hadn't driven the team to a score with 24 seconds left on the clock.

Barkley, Yates, and Sanchez? Again, you must be kidding. None of them is fit to wash Kirk's dirty uniform. Landry is unproven. Bortles is no better than Kirk. If it's so easy to pick a starting caliber QB, why was Wilson picked in the 3rd round?

You may not think so, but we've got bigger problems at other positions.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

You realize saying he has something to prove doesn't mean he shouldn't be re-signed at the end of year. Like the FO, some prefer to wait and see before making a decision....and hopefully starting from scratch won't happen.

The FO has already had preliminary talks with Kirk's agent concerning a new contract. Maybe you're not like the FO, after all.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

The FO has already had preliminary talks with Kirk's agent concerning a new contract. Maybe you're not like the FO, after all.

Oh, was there a contract signed? Or are they waiting?

[30gut]

DY you are making my point when you admit they played at a high level during their SB runs.

Even with a defense and a run game the QB still has to do more then merely be propped up to have a SB run.
It seemed like you were trying to diminish their play in their respective SB runs and equating their success with Kirks ability to have success in the same situation. My point is Kirk has not yet shown the ability to have the success those QBs had in their respective SB runs.

Those QBs current struggles makes my point. The QB has to hold up their end for the whole thing to work. Barring Trent Dilfer a SB contending team has more then a propped up QB.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

My point is Kirk has not yet shown the ability to have the success those QBs had in their respective SB runs.

You're right, he hasn't had a #1 defense or a #1 rushing game.

If Kap was a good QB he wouldn't be cut at the end of the year.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

You're right, he hasn't had a #1 defense or a #1 rushing game.

Lol, Wilson rushed for 849 of those rush yards and only threw 7 ints...is Kirk going to do that?

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, Wilson rushed for 849 of those rush yards and only threw 7 ints...is Kirk going to do that?

If Kirk had Wilson's running game and Wilson's defense, he would be better than 5-5.

[30gut]

You win dude.

If you're gonna flat out deny Russ has anything to do with the team's rushing success its hard to have a real discussion about this. No point in even getting into his playmaking, ypa, mediocre receiving corps and spotty OL. Sure, Kirk is as good as Russell Wilson. And because 2 'propped up QBs' made SB runs then we should re-up Kirk right now?