Campbell's numbers dont lie

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.

Exactly

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

I still don't understand how you can say that Campbell is playing very well. There was a number of plays that were completely his fault this year, including many last night.

He has developed the physical tools to play qb in the nfl, but not a lot of mental skills. As a quarterback, decision-making is THE most important skill to have.

You can't agree that many of Campbell's mistakes are directly tied to the lack of protection and time to make decisions?

Gruden mentioned about JC's "happy feet", but can you blame him with as many hits, mostly immediate hits that he's taking with this joke of a line TRYING to block for him?

Last season, he had a weak line in the second half, but it wasn't this bad. He threw the fewest INTs of any full-time starting QB last year, even with a broken-down line in the second half. He's clearly capable of playing mistake-free football if he has even a little talent around him...which he doesn't this season.



Thanks for all of the incredibly-stimulating commentary, SOUL-SKINS.

[warriorzpath]

Originally Posted by Buster

You can't agree that many of Campbell's mistakes are directly tied to the lack of protection and time to make decisions?

Gruden mentioned about JC's "happy feet", but can you blame him with as many hits, mostly immediate hits that he's taking with this joke of a line TRYING to block for him?

Last season, he had a weak line in the second half, but it wasn't this bad. He threw the fewest INTs of any full-time starting QB last year, even with a broken-down line in the second half. He's clearly capable of playing mistake-free football if he has even a little talent around him...which he doesn't this season.



Thanks for all of the incredibly-stimulating commentary, SOUL-SKINS.

You can back up your opinion of Campbell with your presentation of the stats.

I'll back up my opinion of Campbell with analysis expressed by respected former quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers. And I'll add that my opinion of Campbell was made before them (respected former...).

Now what is your opinion of who is more credible.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by warriorzpath

You can back up your opinion of Campbell with your presentation of the stats.

I'll back up my opinion of Campbell with analysis expressed by respected former quarterbacks, coaches, and general managers. And I'll add that my opinion of Campbell was made before them (respected former...).

Now what is your opinion of who is more credible.

Isn't this like saying, "what's more credible, the interpretation of these results, or the opinion of others who are interpreting the same results."

The correct answer is: the evidence is exactly the same. The results are only obvious if you take the big picture approach, which neither side here is doing. You and Buster are taking parts of the picture, and presenting it so that it looks like each of you is right.

For what it's worth, he's doing a much better job, simply because he's not deferring to second or third sources. His arguments are quite disputable, but certainly not by saying, "television tells me otherwise".

Your admission that your mind was already made up, while necessary for full disclosure, more or less kills your objectivity.

[Monkeydad]

I wonder if the Pillsbury Throwboy has a job now...he could actually survive behind our line. Cut Collins, bring in Jared Lorenzen!

[Big C]

if campbell's numbers dont lie then neither did mark brunell's. same situation imo. good numbers, bad results. same with chad pennington later on for the jets. great qb rating, but was a very safe passer rather than making plays. imo we should look at max hall in the later rounds from byu and focus on o-line through the draft. if tebow is there in the 2nd round then grab him, otherwise max hall in round 4 or 5. or possibly talk to the browns about a trade for quinn.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Big C

if campbell's numbers dont lie then neither did mark brunell's. same situation imo. good numbers, bad results. same with chad pennington later on for the jets. great qb rating, but was a very safe passer rather than making plays. imo we should look at max hall in the later rounds from byu and focus on o-line through the draft. if tebow is there in the 2nd round then grab him, otherwise max hall in round 4 or 5. or possibly talk to the browns about a trade for quinn.

Brunell did take us to the playoffs and even won a postseason game, even without any WRs other than Moss.

[Big C]

Originally Posted by Buster

Brunell did take us to the playoffs and even won a postseason game, even without any WRs other than Moss.

yeah. but people still bitched about how bad brunell was, and he had good stats, which is my point. there are qbs with nice qb ratings but that doesnt mean everything.

here are some qbs coming out this year for sure, seniors, which i believe could be ok for mid to later rounds.

lefevour from cmu
hall from byu
turner from maryland (just because they run a pro-style offense and will probably be a 7th round pick)

[SBXVII]

^ I'd rather start fresh with a new QB. It's no wonder some of these big named QB's are sitting on the bench right now.....and it's not cause their going through a difficult time. Pass on Quinn. Pass on Cutler also, although he may go through his progressions better or have better poise his stats remain the same as JC's. Why pick up a QB who is not better then what you already have?

[SOUL-SKINS]

This thread should be called Campbells numbers DO LIE!!
He's not nearly as good as his "just OK" stats. He fucking blows

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

This thread should be called Campbells numbers DO LIE!!
He's not nearly as good as his "just OK" stats. He fucking blows

Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Thanks for the insightful commentary. You've added greatly to the discussion.

Thanks. I thought I made a great point as well.
I'm thinking about cutting and pasting that into every thread discussion.

[Green1]

Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Green1

Buster your doing a great job with updates. Keep it up

Thank you.


I will.


Before the season, I strongly supported keeping Campbell. I thought he'd have a big year, which is now clearly impossible without a competent offensive line. However, I stand by my views on Campbell, Cutler and Sanchez and intend to keep compiling the stats that support my stance on it.

Sure, if Campbell's stats proved it, I COULD admit I was wrong and move on, but I don't see that as necessary because he is actually proving to be just as good, or better than the other two QBs even with the distinct disadvantage of playing behind Vinny Cerrato's idea of an offensive line. I still say we made the right decision and wouldn't be any better of a team with another QB this season, but we COULD be worse. Let Collins play a few games and when he's admitted to the hospital, we'll see that.

I also believe that unlike Zorn, Jason Campbell has done enough to earn another year with the team and if he's given a line and has a coach capable of understanding playcalling...can excel.

[Monkeydad]

UPDATED stats/assessment...Campbell was not sacked and threw no INTs in Week 8!

Cutler:
WK 8 - 17/30 (56.7%), 225 yds, 0 TD, 1 INT, 66.7 rating, 32 rush yds
TOTAL: 153/239 (64.0%), 1,677 yds, 11 TD, 11 INT, 80.8 rating, 92 rush yds

Sanchez:
WK 8 - 20/35 (57.1%), 265 yds, 2 TD, 0 INT, 100.3 rating, 6 rush yds
TOTAL: 114/213 (53.5%), 1,443 yds, 8 TD, 10 INT, 67.9 rating, 60 rush yds

Campbell:
WK 8 - *BYE*
TOTAL: 136/206 (66.0%), 1,481 yds, 8 TD, 7 INT, 85.8 rating, 103 rush yds


Ranks:
Comp. % = Campbell, Cutler, Sanchez
Yds = Cutler (1,677) Campbell (1,481) Sanchez (1,443)
TDs = Cutler (11), Campbell (8), Sanchez (8)
INTs (fewest) = Campbell (7), Sanchez (10) Cutler (11)
QB rating = Campbell (85.8), Cutler (80.8), Sanchez (67.9)
Rush yds = Campbell (103), Cutler (92), Sanchez(60)


Week 8 Campbell overview:
At this point in the season, Campbell and Cutler have had their bye weeks, Sanchez has played in 8 games to their 7, yet still comes in with the least stats in all categories; only Cutler has more INTs, saving Sanchez from the basement in every stat I'm tracking.

Both Cutler and Sanchez were on the losing side of the scoreboards in Week 8. Cutler had no TDs and another INT, with a poor performance against the Browns. Sanchez had a better game than Cutler with a pair of TD passes and decent yardage, but was still inaccurate against the Dolphins. Both QBs had sub-60% completion percentages this week.

Campbell still leads all three QBs in completion %, QB rating, fewest INTs and rushing yardage. Cutler overtook him in yardage this week as the Redskins had the week off.

If looking at the TD/INT categories, so far Campbell is +1 with 8 TDs/7 INTs. It does not look impressive, but Cutler is even with 11 TDs/11 INTs and Sanchez is -2 with his 8 TDs/10 INTs. This is not an official or possibly even useful stat, but it does show that Campbell does make fewer mistakes, even with his joke of an offensive line and no protection or time. Since I know someone will mention fumbles now, here you go:

Cutler: 7 fumbles, 1 lost
Sanchez: 8 fumbles, 2 lost
Campbell: 10 fumbles, 3 lost

Let's also look at sacks:

Cutler: 11 sacked
Sanchez: 15 sacked
Campbell: 20 sacked

Campbell is getting killed, even with having the most mobility of the 3 QBs. You can see a direct correlation with times sacked vs. fumbles.