Redskins Add WRs Pierre Garcon and Joshua Morgan

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

The more I think about our FA moves and using precious cap space to get WRs over the best available olineman it seems plausable Hankerson's injury concerns are pretty serious. Too bad we didn't have the dough to do both!

This team was in desperate need of playmakers at WR. Even if LH was 100%, I think we still would have made those moves.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

This team was in desperate need of playmakers at WR. Even if LH was 100%, I think we still would have made those moves.

Yeah but I thought a legit franchise QB could boost WR performance?!

We just mortgaged the foreseeable future on our franchise QB, it stands to reason we'd do everything possible to best protect him and that means solidifying the line to me.

Garcon, Gaffney, Moss and a healthy Hankerson is a pretty decent WR group. Spending extra cap space on Morgan at the (possible) expense of London, RT, OG seems either shortsighted or indicative Hankerson is a big ?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Yeah but I thought a legit franchise QB could boost WR performance?!

We just mortgaged the foreseeable future on our franchise QB, it stands to reason we'd do everything possible to best protect him and that means solidifying the line to me.

Garcon, Gaffney, Moss and a healthy Hankerson is a pretty decent WR group. Spending extra cap space on Morgan at the (possible) expense of London, RT, OG seems either shortsighted or indicative Hankerson is a big ?

Sure, you can get more out of your receivers, but they aren't getting faster or more talented. Steve Young could probably do well with Gaffney and old Moss, but Jerry Rice could do more than either of them.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Sure, you can get more out of your receivers, but they aren't getting faster or more talented. Steve Young could probably do well with Gaffney and old Moss, but Jerry Rice could do more than either of them.

Raider Rice or Seahawks and Broncos training camp Rice?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Yeah but I thought a legit franchise QB could boost WR performance?!

We just mortgaged the foreseeable future on our franchise QB, it stands to reason we'd do everything possible to best protect him and that means solidifying the line to me.

Garcon, Gaffney, Moss and a healthy Hankerson is a pretty decent WR group. Spending extra cap space on Morgan at the (possible) expense of London, RT, OG seems either shortsighted or indicative Hankerson is a big ?

Shanahan just doesn't toss big $$ at lineman especially on the interior.

I don't think the line was that horrible to begin with anyway.

One of RG3's main strength's is his deep ball. Makes sense to get him as much help as possible in that area.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Shanahan just doesn't toss big $$ at lineman especially on the interior.

I don't think the line was that horrible to begin with anyway.

One of RG3's main strength's is his deep ball. Makes sense to get him as much help as possible in that area.

RG3 also seems to be pretty good at getting the most out of generally inferior talent. Line wise Baylor always had a prospect or two but to my knowledge as a unit they've always been average.

2009 - Frosh year
Jason Smith - T - Rams - Top 5 Pick
Dan Gay - T -Saints - Undrafted

2010
JD Walton - C - Broncos - 3rd Round

2011
Danny Watkins - G - Eagles - 1st Round

2012
Phillip Wright - C - 5th Round Grade
Robert Griffin (Yes, Robert Griffin) - G - Projected UDFA

[Dirtbag59]

Key events in 201

* Lucius Annius Fabianus and Marcus Nonius Arrius Mucianus become Roman Consuls.

* November – A flood in Edessa destroys a Christian church, killing over 2,000 people.

* Osroene becomes the first state which adopts Christianity as its official religion (per New International Encyclopedia).

* Brandon Banks has TD returns called back on penalties against the Lions.

Births

* Roman emperor Trajan Decius (d. 251)
* Cheng Wu, general of the Kingdom of Wei
* Qiao Zhou, minister of the Kingdom of Shu (d. 270)

Deaths
* Possible death of Galen

[SirClintonPortis]

Our O-line was in better shape than our WRs.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

Our O-line was in better shape than our WRs.

Out of pure curiosity why do you think this?

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Out of pure curiosity why do you think this?

We have capable starters on the oline, but our depth could be better. Our starting WRs are fading fast and would be in marginal roles elsewhere and our depth is shaky as well.

Hankerson's recovery is still in question and he seems to be on a slow learning curve. Austin, Robinson, and Paul all seem not ready yet. Gaffney is not really much of a threat; he's like a slower and older Steve Smith(former Giant). Moss is nearing that magic age of 33; WRs just seem to retire at that age or soon afterwards.

Trent is an either-or. He either is gonna be suspended and do nothing, or he keeps himself clean and improve yet again this year. I'll take my bets that he'll stay clean and thus play, at a bare minimum, just as well this year next year. The interior three held their own, and I'm willing to place some hope into Willie Smith improving enough to be ever-so-slightly better than Jamaal Brown.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

We have capable starters on the oline, but our depth could be better. Our starting WRs are fading fast and would be in marginal roles elsewhere and our depth is shaky as well.

I think our OL as unit is greater then the sum of its parts and is better then most people think.
(Football outsiders ranks our OL: 10th in run blocking 15th in pass blocking)

But, I think you overstate the quality of the individual players and underestimate the quality of our WRs.
I don't think judging our players on how/where they would fit on another is too subjective to be useful in assess their talent.
But even using that criteria I think you would be hard pressed to find a starting role for any of out OL other then Trent Williams and maybe Chris Chester.

Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th
Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively.
Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon. And keep in mind this group of WRs dealt with Wrecks Grossman and John Beck getting them the ball; which imo was a major limiting factor.

I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11.
I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense.
I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB.

The interior three held their own, and I'm willing to place some hope into Willie Smith improving enough to be ever-so-slightly better than Jamaal Brown.

I have high hopes for Willy too but I would rather not rely on hope as a strategy for improvement when it comes to protect our franchise QB.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Sorry to be late to this discussion:

Signing of Garcon: An A+ for the front office. Those who say that Garcon looked better than he really is because he had Peyton Manning throwing to him all these years overlook the fact that Peyton Manning threw him the ball because he got open. : :


Signing of Josh Morgan: Put me in the "skeptical category". [Skeptics are ones who have doubts but can be convinced they are wrong on the basis of future data/observations.] I think that is a lot of money for a guy whose career accomplishments to date are pretty average. :confused-


Almost signing of Eddie Royal: Would have been a GREAT addition to the WR corps.


Here is an interesting thing to think about. Right after the season ended, the Skins fired Keenan McCardell as the WRs coach. Conventional wisdom at the time was that the Skins' braintrust did not think he got as much out of the WRs on the roster as he could have. Now, as soon as free agency opens, the Skins have the pedal to the metal to sign an entirely new WR corps.

Hmmm.... Must have been some inadequate coaching PLUS a fundamental lack of talent at the position.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think our OL as unit is greater then the sum of its parts and is better then most people think.
(Football outsiders ranks our OL: 10th in run blocking 15th in pass blocking)

But, I think you overstate the quality of the individual players and underestimate the quality of our WRs.
I don't think judging our players on how/where they would fit on another is too subjective to be useful in assess their talent.
But even using that criteria I think you would be hard pressed to find a starting role for any of out OL other then Trent Williams and maybe Chris Chester.

Football Outsiders ranks our passing offense:22th
Jabbar Gaffney ranks 33rd in DYAR and 48th in DVOA which is actually ahead of newly signed P.Garcon 81st and 78th respectively.
Interestingly enough the injured S.Moss DYAR/DVOA 80th DYAR/79th DVOA, rival Garcon. And keep in mind this group of WRs dealt with Wrecks Grossman and John Beck getting them the ball; which imo was a major limiting factor.

I think RT more so they any other position on offense was the weakest link on our starting 11.
I'm an oldschool type guy and I think physical superiority at the point of attack is the single most successful way to improve an offense.
I think finding a definitive upgrade at the RT position, more then any else, would be the most beneficial to support a rookie QB.

I have high hopes for Willy too but I would rather not rely on hope as a strategy for improvement when it comes to protect our franchise QB.

There is much more hoping needed at the WR position for us than at the OL starters. We have to hope Moss's age has not caught up with him, that Gaffney can replicate his season, that Hankerson is indeed more than just a one game wonder, that Paul will do something more than just be a blocker, and that Austin and the rest can actually do something. Wille Smith had a longer audition to showcase his stuff and he did quite well; hence, hoping for him is more plausible than hoping for the WR corps to magically transform itself into on that rivals the better ones in the league.


Football Outsiders themselves state that their statistics are not at the point where they have accounted for all of the confounding effects on it. Also, things that occur in the game, but do not hit the official NFL statsheet, are not counted, such as whether the player is facing the opposing #1 corner, being double-teamed. Gaffney, without controlling for variables such as scheme, other receivers taking pressure off of him, play action effectiveness, o-line quality, etc might have indeed performed better than Moss last year, but that does not necessarily prove that he is the better, more valuable player on the field physically.

Also, if we are to use these stats to predict future performance, the real matter is whether past DYAR and DVOA is a good indicator of future DYAR and DVOA values.


Garcon had even worse QBs and a worse supporting cast.

[The Goat]

I tend to agree with 30gut our biggest offensive weakness was/is RT. Obviously protecting your franchise QB is paramount but an upgrade at RT also helps the rushing attack significantly. And I'm not even sure this was the off-season to find FA WR talent. V Jackson was too pricey and Garcon has never looked like a consistent, #1 type WR at any point in his career IMO. The Morgan signing makes even less sense to me unless Hankerson's outlook is very questionable within the franchise (because of a serious, early injury). Also, new WRs mean more players trying to learn the offense as opposed to just Griffin trying to learn w/ help from the WRs experienced in the system.

In short, if the line doesn't hold up this season and sacks/pressure are of ongoing concern Mike and Bruce should face some extremely tough questions/criticism. I hope they called it right this time...

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I tend to agree with 30gut our biggest offensive weakness was/is RT. Obviously protecting your franchise QB is paramount but an upgrade at RT also helps the rushing attack significantly. And I'm not even sure this was the off-season to find FA WR talent. V Jackson was too pricey and Garcon has never looked like a consistent, #1 type WR at any point in his career IMO. The Morgan signing makes even less sense to me unless Hankerson's outlook is very questionable within the franchise (because of a serious, early injury). Also, new WRs mean more players trying to learn the offense as opposed to just Griffin trying to learn w/ help from the WRs experienced in the system.

In short, if the line doesn't hold up this season and sacks/pressure are of ongoing concern Mike and Bruce should face some extremely tough questions/criticism. I hope they called it right this time...

WRs who can block is one of the critical factors between having a run that goes the the house and a run that is stopped for ten yards. Josh Morgan fit that bill and provides something in the passing game, unlike the one-dimensional Niles Paul.