The Zidane Incident

[TheInspector]

Originally Posted by Buster

HA! The "MVP" scored 3 goals in the whole tournament.

3 goals is actually a lot. There was only one player in the world cup with more (Klose with 5, and they didn't make it to the finals)--everyone else had three or less.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Buster

HA! The "MVP" scored 3 goals in the whole tournament. He as many yellow cards as goals, and a red card on top of that.

Soccer is dumb. I'm ready for REAL football in the news.

No offense Buster, but you really shouldn't call out the most popular sport in the world like that without actually supporting yourself, and putting forth a decent arguement. It is this ignorance of the game, that also creates a negative image of Americans. As mentioned before 3 goals is a lot in the torney, Klose had 5, henry had 3, etc. Beside the goals, he pretty much controlled midfield, and set up some brillant goals. Another point; the votes for the golden award thingy were counted before the headbutt, therefore the voters did not have that issue in mind when voting.

I understand the frustration us Americans have with the flopping, and hopefully FIFA starts giving more yellows for flops, but what really frustrates me, is how as a nation, we need high scoring action, or we consider it boring. Some of the best games in soccer are 0-0 ties. Yeah its 90 freaking minutes, and no goals, so deal with it. It really shows that some people do not have the patience to admire the finer points of the world's greatest game. Do you know why there are so few goals? It's because scoring a goal in soccer is much harder than to score in a game of football. The whole team has to keep pushing, and flowing at almost a perfect rate, or their has to be a very very rare mistake. If you take that into consideration, you would realize that Zidane's 3 goals is a great stat, and we also know that all stats on paper do not explain what a player has done in a game.

It is people like you that have ruined the game of soccer. FIFA is trying to increase goals, by have lighter balls, that can drop and swing off unexpectidly, making it harder for the goalie to stop. They are also calling more bullshit calls, which increase the set pieces, and penalty kicks, which add to goals, just to please people who do not have the patience or appreciation of the game. Because of people who do not appreciate the finer points of game, the NBA, MLB, and yes even our beloved NFL have changed to rules to please people who can't FCKING sit and try to enjoy the game without bitching. Now pass interference rules are almost ridiculous, which makes even more high scoring games, and almost kills the contact sport aspect, at the CB position. The refs call everything in the NBA even if you rest your arm on a player while play D, like for D. Wade in the finals, and now its considered good D if you hold and opponent to under 100 points. All of this just to please people who want more scores.

I am sick of this shit, people need to start being open and quit bitching. No one is fucking dissing soccer in that nature, without me saying anything.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I understand the frustration us Americans have with the flopping, and hopefully FIFA starts giving more yellows for flops, but what really frustrates me, is how as a nation, we need high scoring action, or we consider it boring. Some of the best games in soccer are 0-0 ties. Yeah its 90 freaking minutes, and no goals, so deal with it. It really shows that some people do not have the patience to admire the finer points of the world's greatest game. Do you know why there are so few goals? It's because scoring a goal in soccer is much harder than to score in a game of football.

I agree with all your points except for this one. This is kind of like saying that people SHOULD appreciate wine and taste all the subtleties when it's really just how we're raised. We are raised in an unfortunately fast-paced society and I don't see anything wrong with enjoying high scoring action. That's another reason baseball isn't more popular than it is. I believe that the "majority" of sports have their charm and no one is better than the other "value"-wise, but it's something that has a simply subjective entertainment. It's wrong for anyone to say that people are idiots for not enjoying this sport or that sport.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

I agree with all your points except for this one. This is kind of like saying that people SHOULD appreciate wine and taste all the subtleties when it's really just how we're raised. We are raised in an unfortunately fast-paced society and I don't see anything wrong with enjoying high scoring action. That's another reason baseball isn't more popular than it is. I believe that the "majority" of sports have their charm and no one is better than the other "value"-wise, but it's something that has a simply subjective entertainment. It's wrong for anyone to say that people are idiots for not enjoying this sport or that sport.

Ok I do get what you are saying, and maybe my anger made me come off wrong. I really do not care if people do not like a particular point, but I do not like it when people critcize sports without backing it and just straight bashing. I am more upset in the way people criticize soccer, and you are right our fast paced society adds to our need of high scoring action. At same time I feel that this need has not only created soccer "haters", but has also negatively impacted other games, such as baseball, football, basketball, etc. This just doesn't have to do with soccer, I think there are finer points in all these sports that are not appreciated. Maybe I should have said world's most popular rather than world's greatest game.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

This is kind of like saying that people SHOULD appreciate wine and taste all the subtleties when it's really just how we're raised. We are raised in an unfortunately fast-paced society and I don't see anything wrong with enjoying high scoring action. That's another reason baseball isn't more popular than it is. I believe that the "majority" of sports have their charm and no one is better than the other "value"-wise, but it's something that has a simply subjective entertainment. It's wrong for anyone to say that people are idiots for not enjoying this sport or that sport.

I agree with you about that and you've pointed out the attitude that turns so many people off from soccer, despite it's boring pace.

I do know about soccer. I used to play soccer, as well as basketball and baseball.

Soccer is a boring spectator sport. It has nothing to do with the low scores, as baseball and hockey contain action without a ton of scoring. It's the nature of the game that is boring. The field is HUGE and most of the 90 minutes is spent kicking the ball way down the field only to have the other team return the kick once they can't advance the ball past mid-field. Maybe the field needs made smaller or the goal made larger. Also, ties aren't decided by playing the game in a sudden-death overtime, they have a little kicking contest. It would be like football having an extra-point contest, baseball playing a game of pepper instead of extra innings or basketball having a game of horse to decide the championship.

It's only the most popular sport in the world because it's all they have or can afford in most nations. If OUR football was able to be played in every nation, it would easily be more popular. Look at how crazy fans in Japan or even Mexico go for an exhibition game with our worst teams like the Arizona Cardinals, 49ers and Lions' players who won't even make the team. When I watch NFL-Europe games, the hooligans are out with face paint, jerseys and the stadium is packed in their little 6-team league that has survived a LOT longer than I would've ever predicted. They look like the Raiders fans for the equivalent of a practice squad game or "minor league" game. If the world could have the NFL or MLB, they'd love it. Look at baseball in Japan. The best players come to the United States.

I don't hate soccer. I, like most Americans, just can't stay awake through a whole match. I am beginning to hate the reactions from soccer fans when I can't share their enthusiasm. They always fall back on this talking point of "but you don't understand the nuances of the game". That's crap. I know every soccer rule and have given it many chances to watch it before. I got slightly interested in the 1994 World Cup because the USA team was the best we've ever fielded with Alexi Lalas, Tab Ramos, Tony Meola, etc. I still couldn't love watching it though...the interest was more out of my love for America rather than the love of the sport.

It's ok for people not to like soccer. Well, to some people...it's not. We're expected to "embrace" the game because it will make us look better to the world community. That's a load of crap. Soccer has been pushed in front of us with popularity campaigns since the 1970s and it hasn't taken off. No one will go to the MLS games...no one will suddenly start following Manchester United because they're told to do so. Until the final, which was hyped NONSTOP...poker on ESPN and NASCAR races kicked the World Cup's butt in ratings in the USA. The outdoor AND indoor soccer teams that were in local cities for me have both folded because no one went to the games...and they were championship teams repeatedly!

It's ok if you like soccer. Just don't expect everyone else to. Soccer is a thing like Star Trek or chess tournaments. There's a few people who love it and find a ton of enjoyment in it and that's GREAT for them. Everyone should have a passion. However, when you try to push your passion on everyone else, all you'll accomplish is making people hate it rather than just not caring.

It is people like you that have ruined the game of soccer.

Uh huh...sure. How can someone outside of soccer ruin the game? More than anything it's a combination of the drunken hooligans who kill people over a soccer match...maybe it's the slow pace of the game...maybe it's the pompous attitudes from the soccer "experts"...maybe it's the fact that the equivalent of Dennis Rodman gets rewarded for losing the tournament with his bad temper. Oh wait...Dennis Rodman HELPED his team win. I'm flattered that you think I hold that much influence in the world.


I don't want to start anything personal with a fellow Redskins fan, especially over something like soccer not being popular in our nation. I'm not to blame for that, despite your accusations.

I hope we can go back to cheering for the Redskins with no grudges after this. That's why we're really here. However...I do think you overreacted.

The MVP scored 3 goals in a whole tournament and you stated that's a LOT of scoring...I don't think I have to explain why the sport hasn't taken off after that exchange.

I don't care of you like soccer. Good for you if it makes you happy. Just don't try to talk people into liking something that they just don't like with a tone that they MUST like soccer or they're somehow less of a person.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Buster

Until the final, which was hyped NONSTOP...poker on ESPN and NASCAR races kicked the World Cup's butt in ratings in the USA.

Where'd you hear that?

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Buster

I agree with you about that and you've pointed out the attitude that turns so many people off from soccer, despite it's boring pace.

I do know about soccer. I used to play soccer, as well as basketball and baseball.

Soccer is a boring spectator sport. It has nothing to do with the low scores, as baseball and hockey contain action without a ton of scoring. It's the nature of the game that is boring. The field is HUGE and most of the 90 minutes is spent kicking the ball way down the field only to have the other team return the kick once they can't advance the ball past mid-field. Maybe the field needs made smaller or the goal made larger. Also, ties aren't decided by playing the game in a sudden-death overtime, they have a little kicking contest. It would be like football having an extra-point contest, baseball playing a game of pepper instead of extra innings or basketball having a game of horse to decide the championship.

It's only the most popular sport in the world because it's all they have or can afford in most nations. If OUR football was able to be played in every nation, it would easily be more popular. Look at how crazy fans in Japan or even Mexico go for an exhibition game with our worst teams like the Arizona Cardinals, 49ers and Lions' players who won't even make the team. When I watch NFL-Europe games, the hooligans are out with face paint, jerseys and the stadium is packed in their little 6-team league that has survived a LOT longer than I would've ever predicted. They look like the Raiders fans for the equivalent of a practice squad game or "minor league" game. If the world could have the NFL or MLB, they'd love it. Look at baseball in Japan. The best players come to the United States.

I don't hate soccer. I, like most Americans, just can't stay awake through a whole match. I am beginning to hate the reactions from soccer fans when I can't share their enthusiasm. They always fall back on this talking point of "but you don't understand the nuances of the game". That's crap. I know every soccer rule and have given it many chances to watch it before. I got slightly interested in the 1994 World Cup because the USA team was the best we've ever fielded with Alexi Lalas, Tab Ramos, Tony Meola, etc. I still couldn't love watching it though...the interest was more out of my love for America rather than the love of the sport.

It's ok for people not to like soccer. Well, to some people...it's not. We're expected to "embrace" the game because it will make us look better to the world community. That's a load of crap. Soccer has been pushed in front of us with popularity campaigns since the 1970s and it hasn't taken off. No one will go to the MLS games...no one will suddenly start following Manchester United because they're told to do so. Until the final, which was hyped NONSTOP...poker on ESPN and NASCAR races kicked the World Cup's butt in ratings in the USA. The outdoor AND indoor soccer teams that were in local cities for me have both folded because no one went to the games...and they were championship teams repeatedly!

It's ok if you like soccer. Just don't expect everyone else to. Soccer is a thing like Star Trek or chess tournaments. There's a few people who love it and find a ton of enjoyment in it and that's GREAT for them. Everyone should have a passion. However, when you try to push your passion on everyone else, all you'll accomplish is making people hate it rather than just not caring.




Uh huh...sure. How can someone outside of soccer ruin the game? More than anything it's a combination of the drunken hooligans who kill people over a soccer match...maybe it's the slow pace of the game...maybe it's the pompous attitudes from the soccer "experts"...maybe it's the fact that the equivalent of Dennis Rodman gets rewarded for losing the tournament with his bad temper. Oh wait...Dennis Rodman HELPED his team win. I'm flattered that you think I hold that much influence in the world.


I don't want to start anything personal with a fellow Redskins fan, especially over something like soccer not being popular in our nation. I'm not to blame for that, despite your accusations.

I hope we can go back to cheering for the Redskins with no grudges after this. That's why we're really here. However...I do think you overreacted.

The MVP scored 3 goals in a whole tournament and you stated that's a LOT of scoring...I don't think I have to explain why the sport hasn't taken off after that exchange.

I don't care of you like soccer. Good for you if it makes you happy. Just don't try to talk people into liking something that they just don't like with a tone that they MUST like soccer or they're somehow less of a person.

Sorry I have kinda been away from the fire I have started . Yeah I was a bit upset when I made that post, but I still stand by the points I have made, and of course we are both entitled to our opinions. If you read the last lines of my post, you will see why I was upset. Like BD said, I do not like it when people blindly stab at soccer, and with your earlier posts, you were doing just that. I am glad you know about soccer, and even though I do not agree with your opinion, I am glad you are backing your position.

As I had said before, this arguement isn't only about soccer to me, it's about all sports, and how we as a nation want that. Many of us feel it's ruining that game, and come on we are all frustrated when Shawn Springs gets calls for pass interference in the 4th quarter of a close game because he may have touched the reciever. In the context of soccer, I vent my anger and frustration because I feel the rule changes are ruining sports across this nation, from soccer to football. I guess in many ways I am not calling you out specifically, but the fan base of sports in general.

I do not feel I am overreacting, because yeah its just a game we are talking about, and there are def. no hard feelings, maybe there would be if you were a Cowboys fan . I am sure the people on this board think I am some crazy anti-American soccer loving, commie, foriegn bastard lol, non of which are true of course.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by hooskins

No offense Buster, but you really shouldn't call out the most popular sport in the world like that without actually supporting yourself, and putting forth a decent arguement. It is this ignorance of the game, that also creates a negative image of Americans. As mentioned before 3 goals is a lot in the torney, Klose had 5, henry had 3, etc. Beside the goals, he pretty much controlled midfield, and set up some brillant goals. Another point; the votes for the golden award thingy were counted before the headbutt, therefore the voters did not have that issue in mind when voting.

I understand the frustration us Americans have with the flopping, and hopefully FIFA starts giving more yellows for flops, but what really frustrates me, is how as a nation, we need high scoring action, or we consider it boring. Some of the best games in soccer are 0-0 ties. Yeah its 90 freaking minutes, and no goals, so deal with it. It really shows that some people do not have the patience to admire the finer points of the world's greatest game. Do you know why there are so few goals? It's because scoring a goal in soccer is much harder than to score in a game of football. The whole team has to keep pushing, and flowing at almost a perfect rate, or their has to be a very very rare mistake. If you take that into consideration, you would realize that Zidane's 3 goals is a great stat, and we also know that all stats on paper do not explain what a player has done in a game.

It is people like you that have ruined the game of soccer. FIFA is trying to increase goals, by have lighter balls, that can drop and swing off unexpectidly, making it harder for the goalie to stop. They are also calling more bullshit calls, which increase the set pieces, and penalty kicks, which add to goals, just to please people who do not have the patience or appreciation of the game. Because of people who do not appreciate the finer points of game, the NBA, MLB, and yes even our beloved NFL have changed to rules to please people who can't FCKING sit and try to enjoy the game without bitching. Now pass interference rules are almost ridiculous, which makes even more high scoring games, and almost kills the contact sport aspect, at the CB position. The refs call everything in the NBA even if you rest your arm on a player while play D, like for D. Wade in the finals, and now its considered good D if you hold and opponent to under 100 points. All of this just to please people who want more scores.

I am sick of this shit, people need to start being open and quit bitching. No one is fucking dissing soccer in that nature, without me saying anything.

I personally don't agree with much of anything you said.

Point number 1 you made, that Americans don't appreciate low-scoring games, I kind of half-agree with. Some Americans don't, but then some Americans do. Talk to any baseball purist, and they'll tell you that they'd rather watch Pedro Martinez vs Johan Santana pitch a 1-0 game than see Pujols and Ortiz hit 3 HRs apiece. I personally like nothing better than a defensive slugfest in football.

The low scoring is not why Americans don't like soccer. For some reason, Americans just don't take to sports where the idea is to put a ball or a puck past a goaltender and into a net. Hockey was made to be more high-scoring this year, but it's success as a sport has only improved very marginally. Gotta give the NHL some time, but my assertion is hockey is never going to be as big as the NFL, MLB, or NBA. Americans just like football, baseball, and basketball much better. That's all there really is to it. We have other sports leagues here to attract our attention, that's why nobody cares about soccer. There are other sports we find more fun to both watch and play.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The low scoring is not why Americans don't like soccer. For some reason, Americans just don't take to sports where the idea is to put a ball or a puck past a goaltender and into a net.

I've never really thought about that, but that's very true. I know I personally get bored of back and forth and back and forth and back and forth until there's FINALLY a shot on goal. I guess subconciously there's something about the symmetry of sports like that I don't like. Baseball, while very slow to me, is at least a fairly dynamic game when it comes to the "area" it's played in.

[ArtMonkDrillz]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

For some reason, Americans just don't take to sports where the idea is to put a ball or a puck past a goaltender and into a net.

Since college I've really started to enjoy lacrosse, although I don't watch it that often b/c its rarely on.
I don't mind goal-oriented sports but they do tend to be rather boring. LAX, to me, is very fast and can be very entertaining.

[724Skinsfan]

It's already been touched on in a couple of posts but interest in a particular sport is relevant to the amount of experience a person has with that sport. I love both high scoring and low scoring baseball games. Football goes the same for me. Another factor to influence a person's interest is the passion an enthusiast has when describing the game. I never had an interest in the Tour de France until some guy (UPS driver) spent about 2 non-stop hours explaining to me what the deal was. I'm in the process of trying to learn to like soccer because the area I live in is trying to develop a solid league for youth.

[12thMan]

The main sponsors of soccor icon Zinedine Zidane rallied around the retiring France Football captain on Tuesday despite his dismissal for head-butting an opponent in the closing stages of Sunday's World Cup Final. Sponsors from food group Danone to German sports goods giants Adidas rushed to support the man who fired France to victory in the 1998 World Cup.

Adidas, Zidane's long time sponser, said they are launching a website so that fans can perosnally thank him. They also said that he has been their ambassador for the past 10 years and will remain so through 2017. In fact, and I'm quoting Reuters, they said he can remain as long as he wishes.

This guy makes $11 million dollars a year from endorsements!! Wow!

[Monkeydad]

Maybe he can be the new spokesman for "Advil: The Headache Medicine".

[TheInspector]

I must admit that I lost respect for Zidane after watching the head-butt (yes, I was watching the game live). However, after understanding what Materazzi said (from the deaf lip reader), I don't blame him one bit. Soccer is important to Zidane, and the World Cup is important to Zidane, but neither is more important than the dignity of his mother and his family (and the head-butt shows that). I totally understand why he did that, and I would not expect him to react any differently now (even after the world's reaction). He simply doesn't care enough about soccer or the world cup to allow some one to say something like that without retaliation.

Props for Zidane.

[itvnetop]

Originally Posted by TheInspector

Soccer is important to Zidane, and the World Cup is important to Zidane, but neither is more important than the dignity of his mother and his family (and the head-butt shows that). I totally understand why he did that, and I would not expect him to react any differently now (even after the world's reaction). He simply doesn't care enough about soccer or the world cup to allow some one to say something like that without retaliation.

Props for Zidane.

i concur... if it was about the family or being called a terrorist- that's reason enough to retaliate. there's a reason why the world isn't castigating him.