Tiered minimum wage?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

I just wanted to add something: many people paint a picture of ease and luxury when they describe people on welfare benfits. I can guarantee you that it is NOT fun, and most welfare recipients would be happier with a secure job with decent pay. If welfare is so great, why don't we all quit our jobs and go on welfare? It's not because we like to work -- most hard working people would quit their jobs if they could.

[gibbsisgod]

I think this thread is getting way to political for this board and is in danger of getting locked.

I will say that for every single mother who really needs help from welfare, there are 2 people who take advantage of the system and live off of the goverment.

the minimum wage is no where close to where it should be. Somebody quoted that the cost of living has gone up by almost 15% in the last 7 years. I think its way more than that considering Health Care costs. My healthcare premiums this year alone increased by almost $1000. My 2% "cost of living" increase is gobbled up by that and I am still left struggling to make MY 'LIVING WAGE'.

I made 50k last year. I have 3 kids and a wife that works part time making about 8-10k a year and we STRUGGLE to get by.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

I think this thread is getting way to political for this board and is in danger of getting locked.

I will say that for every single mother who really needs help from welfare, there are 2 people who take advantage of the system and live off of the goverment.

the minimum wage is no where close to where it should be. Somebody quoted that the cost of living has gone up by almost 15% in the last 7 years. I think its way more than that considering Health Care costs. My healthcare premiums this year alone increased by almost $1000. My 2% "cost of living" increase is gobbled up by that and I am still left struggling to make MY 'LIVING WAGE'.

I made 50k last year. I have 3 kids and a wife that works part time making about 8-10k a year and we STRUGGLE to get by.

That 8 to 10k your wife is making is probably what you pay in taxes each year. So she is really working to make up what you are paying in taxes. What I have said in past post is that just increasing min. wage does not solve any problems. The only solution is for a person to want to improve their life to make any difference. Just look to the new Will Smith movie about a homeless guy who is now a millionair. I know that won't happen for most people but there is no reason that a person cannot make 12 to 15 dollars an hour with a little drive. I have to many friends that own their own business and cannot find people to show up and work. The jobs they have are from 55k a year to 10 dollars an hour. They all say the same thing about the revolving door with employee's. Yes they do have alot of good employees but they also struggle to find ones willing to work. I also know that a given area has alot to do with the job market so I'm speaking for my area as I see things.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

I think this thread is getting way to political for this board and is in danger of getting locked.

I will say that for every single mother who really needs help from welfare, there are 2 people who take advantage of the system and live off of the goverment.

the minimum wage is no where close to where it should be. Somebody quoted that the cost of living has gone up by almost 15% in the last 7 years. I think its way more than that considering Health Care costs. My healthcare premiums this year alone increased by almost $1000. My 2% "cost of living" increase is gobbled up by that and I am still left struggling to make MY 'LIVING WAGE'.

I made 50k last year. I have 3 kids and a wife that works part time making about 8-10k a year and we STRUGGLE to get by.

This is going to sound really insensitive, but... maybe you shouldn't have had three kids on a salary that only pays 50k a year? Knowing that kids are on the way, (you've got 9 months of preparation for each) that gives plenty of time to prepare, save, find a second job, work on higher education or job skills ...

And maybe the wife should work full time? There are so many opportunities in this country that you can use to better yourself and your situation rather than use the government to force arbitrary wages on employers because you didn't prepare adequately.

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

This is going to sound really insensitive, but... maybe you shouldn't have had three kids on a salary that only pays 50k a year? Knowing that kids are on the way, (you've got 9 months of preparation for each) that gives plenty of time to prepare, save, find a second job, work on higher education or job skills ...

And maybe the wife should work full time? There are so many opportunities in this country that you can use to better yourself and your situation rather than use the government to force arbitrary wages on employers because you didn't prepare adequately.

As much as I want to say f you buddy, I wont because in some ways you are right.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if I was dead broke or anything like that. My bills are paid, I owe no credit debt(other than 1 car payment) and I live pretty well considering where I live. I am not poor by any means but I do live paycheck to paycheck with liilte or none left over for savings.

It was our choice that my wife doesn't work fulltime so she would be home with our kids(where she and other mothers belong). When she did work we lived much better.

The point I was trying to get accross was this: My income hasn't increased near as much as the cost of living. Every year I get a 2-3% increase but it seasm my cost of living goes up 5-10%. I understand my kids play some part in that but they have nothing to do with raised taxes, increasing health care costs, and things of that nature.


Its wrong of you to judge me and my situation when you don't know all the facts. I have NEVER gone without a job. I have never applied for any kind of Goverment assistance whether it be unemployment, welfare or otherwise. I think I have done pretty good for myself considering the cards I have been dealt in life. I have never asked for help because I have the ablility and the drive to do it myself.
And maybe thats what I should have said to begin with.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

As much as I want to say f you buddy, I wont because in some ways you are right.

I didn't mean to make it sound as if I was dead broke or anything like that. My bills are paid, I owe no credit debt(other than 1 car payment) and I live pretty well considering where I live. I am not poor by any means but I do live paycheck to paycheck with liilte or none left over for savings.

It was our choice that my wife doesn't work fulltime so she would be home with our kids(where she and other mothers belong). When she did work we lived much better.

The point I was trying to get accross was this: My income hasn't increased near as much as the cost of living. Every year I get a 2-3% increase but it seasm my cost of living goes up 5-10%. I understand my kids play some part in that but they have nothing to do with raised taxes, increasing health care costs, and things of that nature.


Its wrong of you to judge me and my situation when you don't know all the facts. I have NEVER gone without a job. I have never applied for any kind of Goverment assistance whether it be unemployment, welfare or otherwise. I think I have done pretty good for myself considering the cards I have been dealt in life. I have never asked for help because I have the ablility and the drive to do it myself.
And maybe thats what I should have said to begin with.

Well I could understand if you wanted to tell me to f... off -- I knew those comments were somewhat "biting". Anyway, no, I don't know your whole situation. My response was based only on the information you gave (3 kids, you make 50k/year, wife works part time).

My main contention is that petitioning the government for a higher minimum wage is asking for government assistance.

The other things people often mention like, "I have X number of kids, so I can't afford to live on that" -- that doesn't wash with me. First off, you shouldn't be reproducing if the best you can do is minimum wage.

I also think people easily forget the risk that is involved with owning your own business, i.e., being an employer. It takes so much time, capital, hard work, and the possibility of failure is so much greater when you start a business. Add to that the responsibility of hiring people - the trust that's involved with those hirees -- it's a major headache. Then on of top all of that, a completely unrelated third party (the gov't) forces that person at the point of a gun to offer a minimum wage -- in some cases a wage that is much higher than the person is worth. When that happens, the employer's budget goes out of whack, and he either has to adjust his hiring down, or make up the cost for the higher wage into the price of the product or service he offers.

I could go on and on. The minimum wage is a socialist concept. Let the free market decide wages, and let individuals negotiate their own salary without interference from government.

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The other things people often mention like, "I have X number of kids, so I can't afford to live on that" -- that doesn't wash with me. First off, you shouldn't be reproducing if the best you can do is minimum wage.

Amen brother!!!!

[dmek25]

[quote=Beemnseven;270421]

My main contention is that petitioning the government for a higher minimum wage is asking for government assistance.


quote]
this is a ridiculous statement. at any place of employment, a standard raise, as long as the company does well, is expected, yearly. when is the last time you went without a raise? its been like 9 years that the minimum has been raised? any small business that doesn't do well usually doesn't last very long. and since the govt feels obligated to normally side with ownership on such labor issues, the minimum stays the same. why penalize the people that are willing to work these jobs? then you start getting into the illegal immigrant thing. i do not want people to get too comfortable in these jobs, but they should be able to survive, also

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I could go on and on. The minimum wage is a socialist concept. Let the free market decide wages, and let individuals negotiate their own salary without interference from government.

if the govt wouldn't have interfered in the first place, employers would be willing to be honest with people, and negotiations. now every potential employer looks at situations like the air traffic contollers, and knows they have the govt's backing. maybe there ought to be a cap on the amount of profits anyone can make, that way the money is distributed more equally. and not some company C.E.O making 20 to 40 million a year, while the everyday joes that work for him make 40,000 a year. does that really seem fair to anyone?

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

When that happens, the employer's budget goes out of whack, and he either has to adjust his hiring down, or make up the cost for the higher wage into the price of the product or service he offers.

That's pretty much why outsourcing is so popular. The governement is hands off on the international market (relativley speaking), and that kind of min wage is unregulated.

I'm sensing a strong conservative vibe to your posts (which I have no problem with), and would like to ask you what ultimatley is the goal of an economy? Are you an advocate for the trickle down theory?

Are you trying to have psuedo slaves making a buck fifty and hour struggling to raise kids, only to have the cycle repeat itself? What do you think will happen to crime in the cities when the governent is "hands off" the buisness aspect of the economy? There are so many variables to be considered.

We need to work on increasing resources for social programs intended to provide the pathways for those who have the desire to get out of poverty throught hard work. Will there be poor people? of course... but there isn't enough being done at the moment.

You can't agree that the statis quo is acceptable... there needs to be alot more done socially both here, and over-seas.

I refuse to accept the abuse of the less fortunate at the cost of a bunch of rich guys. That's garbage.

[gibbsisgod]

I just don't see the min. wage as the major problem here. To many people just don't want to work. We have to many people in this country that are the first ones in line for a handout but are the last ones in line looking for work. I have 2 relatives that are 2 of the laziest people that you would ever want to meet. One is scamming the shit out of the unemployment office and the other is 30 years old living with his mom, he hasn't had a job since '02.

Goverment assistance is a good idea when it is used as it was first intended. To get someone who has fallen on hard times back on there feet, not to support the no-account lazy mofo's who just want to recieve handouts.

[dmek25]

job training, and schooling are a great equalizer. but what if your in your thirties, with a family to feed, then what? and with so many company's going belly up, many of the workforce didn't plan on looking for a job at this stage of their lives. beems, i can tell by your posts that financially you are doing just fine. thats great for you, but i tend to look at the bigger picture. and that means if i can help out in any way, just call me and ill be there

[dmek25]

i went for a 2 year period that i worked 2 jobs. not because i wanted to. but i have seen both sides of the issue. and i tend not to forget. the easy way is to turn your back, and second guess why people are in the situations that they are in. not all of them made the bed that they are currently laying in. i have never recieved anyones help, nor have i asked. but everyone is not as motivated as i. for the willing, this is the least they can do

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i went for a 2 year period that i worked 2 jobs. not because i wanted to. but i have seen both sides of the issue. and i tend not to forget. the easy way is to turn your back, and second guess why people are in the situations that they are in. not all of them made the bed that they are currently laying in. i have never recieved anyones help, nor have i asked. but everyone is not as motivated as i. for the willing, this is the least they can do

You just made the argument against your self. I'm sure most here are willing to help others out who are willing to help themself. In your own statement "but not everyone is as motivated as I" so we should pay someone not willing to make an effort as well as others working to get ahead? You also said you worked two jobs. This is an option for all of us if we want to better our lives. My grandmother work as a volunter for a group which tried to help families get out of poverty. She finally quit saying that ony abou 2 out of 10 people wanted to work their way out of poverty. The other 8 out of 10 where looking for hand outs and not willing to help themself. I'm sure those numbers vary but believe that anyone willing to work hard can make it in America. It really depressed her to quit but after wanting to help she felt she was being used.

[firstdown]

I've enjoyed reading everyones thoughts on the matter and it seems that everyone has a little different opinion on the subject. So lets kepp this non politicial so we can see where it goes.