Wacks the political Bee's Nest

[illdefined]

well man its gotten pretty chaotic. but i dont think anyone ever argued that Bush sucks because he thought Saddam was dangerous. he sucks because he didnt bother to see that he wasn't dangerous ENOUGH (not even a fraction of how dangerous osama is) to brazenly commit our lives, our money and our friends to this war. he IS the commander and chief, and the public, the congress and the soldiers SHOULD be able to trust him.

Originally Posted by That Guy

and saddam had plenty of time to send the good stuff to iran or bury it in the sand (good luck finding that)... but it is strange that you'd argue bush sucks cause he wanted saddam out, but not clinton or kerry or hillary, who (at the time) also thought he was worth going after...

[offiss]

Originally Posted by illdefined

well man its gotten pretty chaotic. but i dont think anyone ever argued that Bush sucks because he thought Saddam was dangerous. he sucks because he didnt bother to see that he wasn't dangerous ENOUGH (not even a fraction of how dangerous osama is) to brazenly commit our lives, our money and our friends to this war. he IS the commander and chief, and the public, the congress and the soldiers SHOULD be able to trust him.

And Bin Laden wasen't a danger before 9/11, infact if you made the accusation before 9/11, that Bin Laden was more dangerous then Sadam, you would be laughed out of the conversation, the fact is, Sadam has killed and tortured more people, than Bin Laden could ever dream of doing, Sadam also showed the world, that he had no problem using WOMD on Iran, as well as his own people, this is a dictator that will stop at nothing to obtain more power, regardless of the mean's in which to obtain that goal, Sadam has far greater resourses than Bin Laden, who ever want's to believe this man was not a real threat to all american's, not just dem's, or rep., I am not going to convince you other wise, 9/11 didn't just kill many innocent people, it ushered in a hole new era in this world, and it has to be dealt with, unfortuntly it is being dealt with in a different manner than we have in the past, and I don't believe many people can accept it, so be it, I for one am glad that our President has seen fit to take all this critisism, and still do what is right to keep us safe, and I mean all of us, it allow's us to have these discussion's, and voice our belief's, regardless of what they may be, voting is no longer about economic philosphical differences, it can be a vote for your life, especially those of us who live in or around new york, as well as D.C. Would I like a perfect president? Absolutly! But we all no he doesn't exist, I do think President Bush has done a pretty good job considering the circumstances. peace out!

[Riggo44]

I think it's really funny!! I just sent it to a few friends!!

[That Guy]

I think offiss is right about bin laden being marginalized to the point where he's sick, tired and too busy running to worry about planning more attacks. Not that his isn't still capable or won't try again in the future, but holding court with known terror operatives is counter productive to staying hidden.

[That Guy]

i'm not listening to bush, sorry to disappoint , clinton bombed him, clinton called him a threat many times, but if you're going to put him on a pedestal, i'll challenge it, because, at least in this instance, I don't think its at all justified.

Iran and iraq are not close buddies, but saddam shipped fighters over to iran in the first gulf war, and it wouldn't be surprising if he sent shipments again... he could have paid them, but it'd probably be more of the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Iran is not a close ally of the US as you may have guessed, and wouldn't really need much reason to accept such donations.

scroll up a bit and read all those nice quotes, kerry, hillary, clinton, gore... they all thought he was a serious threat, so continuing to say that only bush thought that way is in blatant disregard of the facts.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by That Guy

i'm not listening to bush, sorry to disappoint , clinton bombed him, clinton called him a threat many times, but if you're going to put him on a pedestal, i'll challenge it, because, at least in this instance, I don't think its at all justified.

yeah i'm not going to argue about clinton, i dont doubt for a fact he said those things, but if he (or anyone else besides bush) decided it was a REAL imminent threat, they would've made sure first, and NOT dismiss our allies and gone it alone.

Originally Posted by That Guy

so continuing to say that only bush thought that way is in blatant disregard of the facts.

wow. did you really say that? BUSH = BLATANT DISREGARD OF FACTS!

regardless of what whoever believed, this is the only administration who had a big enough agenda with iraq to OVERLOOK the need for REAL evidence, risk billions of dollars, thousands of lives, and our relationship with our allies around the world. dont disregard THIS fact.

[SmootSmack]

I don't remember Clinton seeking approval from allies or the UN when he bombed Kosovo and Bosnia. And I don't remember him seeking permission when he bombed Iraq because of unsubstantiated rumors of an assassination attempt on former President Bush. But this isn't meant to be some anti-Clinton post, because I think he was right in intervening. He might have said it best when he said in 1998 that "Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction."

And now, it's like offiss says, the point is to avoid another 9/11. I still can't fully grasp many of the same people who complain that we weren't proactive enough in terms of Bin Laden argue that we should have just taken a wait and see approach with Hussein because he had never actually invaded our soil.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by smootsmack

But this isn't meant to be some anti-Clinton post, because I think he was right in intervening. He might have said it best when he said in 1998 that "Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction."

And now, it's like offiss says, the point is to avoid another 9/11. I still can't fully grasp many of the same people who complain that we weren't proactive enough in terms of Bin Laden argue that we should have just taken a wait and see approach with Hussein because he had never actually invaded our soil.

sigh. awfully circular huh? iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. nothing. why do you guys insist it does? there was nothing bubbling, no real evidence of ANY plans (unlike with bin laden). al-qaeda isnt a nation, thats what makes them dangerous. if iraq as a nation attacked us, the entire world would come down on them along with us. if we had stuck only to afghanistan, the world would come down on al-qaeda and afghanistan because there was PROOF there was a relation. none of that exists for iraq. N O N E.

[That Guy]

wow. did you really say that? BUSH = BLATANT DISREGARD OF FACTS!

regardless of what whoever believed, this is the only administration who had a big enough agenda with iraq to OVERLOOK the need for REAL evidence, risk billions of dollars, thousands of lives, and our relationship with our allies around the world. dont disregard THIS fact.

no, that's not what i said at all... please read before firing off reactionary remarks... i said that thinking that bush was alone in his thoughts of an iraqee threat is wrong, as in NOT TRUE. please don't try to pull that kind of crap.

as far as the being the only one to decide on acting in a major way, that's true, and i have never said otherwise.

again, before shooting shit at me, please read what you're responding to, thanks.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by That Guy

no, that's not what i said at all... please read before firing off reactionary remarks... i said that thinking that bush was alone in his thoughts of an iraqee threat is wrong, as in NOT TRUE. please don't try to pull that kind of crap.

sorry, if i was unclear. 'BUSH = BLATANT DISREGARD TO FACTS' was MY retort to you claiming we disregarded clinton and others thinking saddam was dangerous. i just couldnt believe you used that phrase, because thats exactly what bush did. he blatantly disregarded the FACTS.

Originally Posted by That Guy

as far as the being the only one to decide on acting in a major way, that's true, and i have never said otherwise.

yup, and then he ACTED on that disregard for the truth. thats the difference. cant believe you're comfortable with that.

[That Guy]

problem with afghanistan is that a lot of people slipped across into a fairly lawless portion of pakistan that don't really have permission to go in to... but i agree that iraq is completely seperate, its pretty the first instance of a pre-emptive war... whether you feel it was morally justified is a different subject altogether.

[That Guy]

yup, and then he ACTED on that disregard for the truth. thats the difference. cant believe you're comfortable with that.

who said i was? you? man, please stop thinking for me...

[That Guy]

and if you think he blatantly disregarded facts, you realize that nearly all of congress agreed that iraq was a threat, they maybe didn't have the facts, cause our intel isn't used to dealing with arab threats and we don't have the networks like we did with the soviets..

its nice that hindsight is 20/20, now to work on that foresight...

you insinuated that bush was acting alone, and then when it was brought up that people supported his position, you ignored it... all i've been saying, is many many people thought he was dangerous... that's it... i don't where this other crap came from.

[That Guy]

another quick side note is that, saddam had been found guilty of possessing WMD, and it was up to him to prove they were gone. whether you think we should have gone to war is seperate from whether he was thought of as a threat. but, since you obviously do think it was wrong, just remember, bush was not in any way alone is deciding to invade, kerry was there with him, among many others. If you disagree with the decision, the blame belongs to much more than bush alone.

[That Guy]

My first post was just saying that many other people thought he was a threat and he's not the only culprit in the invasion, thats all, but i guess my intentions were misunderstood.

as far as personal opinions, I don't usually get into those unless asked, cause its pretty pointless. I really don't care what anyone believes, I just rather opinions not be based on flawed reasoning.