Group Coerced Censorship

[dmek25]

anyone thats going to try and tell me Jerry Falwell was a good man...... well maybe they should dig alittle deeper into what he was all about. it has nothing to do with him being a Christian

[12thMan]

I think Falwell's biggest indictment, in my opinion, was that he lacked balance in his interpretation and delivery of his convictions. Even truth presented without balance can lead to practical error and ultimately becomes divisive. I think this is why many, in fact, viewed him as divisive.

Whether or not he was a good man...I don't know. I'll say this, those who knew him privately probably have a different opinion from those who knew him through the public scope.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I think Falwell's biggest indictment, in my opinion, was that he lacked balance in his interpretation and delivery of his convictions. Even truth presented without balance can lead to practical error and ultimately becomes divisive. I think this is why many, in fact, viewed him as divisive.

Whether or not he was a good man...I don't know. I'll say this, those who knew him privately probably have a different opinion from those who knew him through the public scope.

Exactly!
While I personally have no idea if he was good, bad, or Batman???? Being convicted in the media is just spin, swill, and of NO consequence.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Exactly!
While I personally have no idea if he was good, bad, or Batman???? Being convicted in the media is just spin, swill, and of NO consequence.

Today's media has become synonomous with entertainment. And more and more it's becoming a means by which the general public can judge others. It has very little to do with actual journalism and reporting, and is mainly driven by ratings.

We see it accross the spectrum. Whether it be sports, politics, religion, or entertainment, I think we're starting to cross over into dangerous terrritory with the way news is actually being reported.

Usually when I hear or see the media making an attempt to size up one's character, I try to take it with a grain of salt.

[JoeRedskin]

As with all things, we will be judged by our actions and Falwell intentionly chose to become a very public persona. The media conviction of Falwell was due in part to many things - some from a segment of media that has a strong anti-christian bias and some from out of context statements taken by Falwell. But, by and large, Falwell chose to act on the public stage and, with knowledge that they would be republished, made intentionally divisive and intolerant statements. If he has been judged harshly by the media, and in turn, the public, he has in fact brought these judgments upon himself.

Just b/c some in private have a different opinion of him does not render him free from judgment for very his public actions and public choices.

As in all things spiritual, judge for yourselves, not for condemnation purposes (i.e. - let one w/out sin cast the first stone), rather for your personal and our corporate wisdom.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

As with all things, we will be judged by our actions and Falwell intentionly chose to become a very public persona. The media conviction of Falwell was due in part to many things - some from a segment of media that has a strong anti-christian bias and some from out of context statements taken by Falwell. But, by and large, Falwell chose to act on the public stage and, with knowledge that they would be republished, made intentionally divisive and intolerant statements. If he has been judged harshly by the media, and in turn, the public, he has in fact brought these judgments upon himself.

Just b/c some in private have a different opinion of him does not render him free from judgment for very his public actions and public choices.

As in all things spiritual, judge for yourselves, not for condemnation purposes (i.e. - let one w/out sin cast the first stone), rather for your personal and our corporate wisdom.

Well said.

[Sammy Baugh Fan]

Hey the guy said he was sorry and had asked forgiveness from God and the Bible says He is Faithful and Just to forgive us our sins, and the guy asked the forgivness of people as well.

Each of us has said something so terrible and hateful and utterly wicked to someone or about someone in our lives and it's only the Grace of God the Media didn't here it and hang us on a cross becuase of it.

I just thought my friend Deseal's comment was too nasty for what I beleive to be the way to post around here. That's all. I wasn't saying the Beatles were bigger than Jesus or anything like that. I just said what I said and now all this. Doh! I started channeling John Lennon again

lol

Talk is cool and so is this thread.
peace and bbq grease!
mike

[dmek25]

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by dmek25

i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

Yeah, but that's called being crazy, not simply having a 'different' interpretation. There are lots of things the Bible is open to interpretation on, but getting into heaven is cut and dry:

You want in heaven, you gotta believe in Christ, that's it. Point blank.

The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

The real question is, do you believe in the Bible? For me, that's a big eff no. I think it's a bunch of phoney crap. But that's just me.

I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I am aware that a similar discussion is/was being carried out in another thread containing similar "I don't believe the Bible" statements and I am not trying to hijack this one but I do have question based on your statement. Mostly out of curiousity.

My question is this - When you say "I don't believe in the Bible" are you saying that you don't believe it as a historical document - i.e. that the information contained it is historically inaccurate? Are you saying that you don't believe in its use as a teaching guide (regardless of the particular christian sect)? Are you saying their are certain principles you believe are contained in the Bible that you disagree with (i.e. - the existence of God)?

I don't "believe in" the Bible. Rather, the Bible provides guidance and insight to me in following my beliefs. I have certain beliefs about how the Bible was written and created, but, again, I do not consider this "believing in" the Bible. Instead, it is beliefs about the Bible.

Many people say they do or don't "believe in the Bible". I am just curious as to what it is you don't "believe" about it.

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

Fair enough. Actually, this is a pretty accurate description of my beliefs approximately 15 or so years ago.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah you're right, it's a pretty broad statement. A summary of my beliefs:

- I don't believe there is a God, a heaven, or a hell.

- I believe that a guy named Jesus existed claiming to be the son of God, because that's been established as historical fact.

- I think a lot of the stories written in the Bible about the amazing things Jesus did, like walking on water, curing the sick, etc. are made up.

- But I do think that the teachings of Jesus, and the way he taught people to live their lives, are great ways to live your life. I'm skeptical of the existence of a higher power, and basically skeptical of believing in anything that has no scientific evidence to indicate it exists. But regardless, I'd like to live my life like Jesus because it just feels like the morally right way to live.

Well said and I agree 100 percent.

As for the media conviction of Falwell I think it's quite the opposite. He was allowed to maintain a media presence - appearing as an "expert" on panel discussions until his death - in spite of saying bitter hateful things that would have had anyone else tarred and feathered. Compare some of the disgusting things Falwell said over his career with what got Imus canned, and you will see that Reverend Falwell was much much worse.

Falwell will go down historically as the person most responsible for fusing politics and religion, and for that I would hope he is reserved a special spot in hell if I believed in hell, which I don't.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by dmek25

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

Respectfully no.


1 corinthians-2-"13": Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing'> spiritual things with'> spiritual.

The bible was written in such a way that you can come to just about any conclusion you want. But there is a guideline which God has given as to how to go about studying the bible, God has laid out in the scripture above that guidline, the bible is a spirtual book so when we study the bible all conclusions that we may come to have to coincide with what the rest of the bible has to say it's a golden thread that runs throw the bible. So for someone to pull one verse and say this is what this means is not neccasarily right, that conclusion has to square with everything else the bible has to say, if it doesn't then you have to continue to search for a deeper meaning.

For example: The verse John 3:16 [the worlds favorite verse] "16'>": For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Many, many, religions use this verse to say God came to save the whole world. But as we read the bible that theory flies in the face of everything else the bible has to say on the subject, for instance a verse I quoted earlier, Matthew-7- "13": Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: How can so many people be going to hell if God came to save the world? Well he didn't come to save the world but individuals who he has choosen.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


Ephesians, chapter 1-"5": Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.


Philippians, chapter 2-"13": For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.


John, chapter 1-"13": Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

What main stream religion has done is created a feels good gospel, go to church, be kind to people, and you will get to heaven, UTTER NONESENSE! Only God can save an individual, not church, not good works, and not in ourselves can anyone be saved.


Ephesians, chapter 2-"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by dmek25

offiss, are we in agreement that no matter who reads the bible, it will be interpreted differently? religion is about finding inner peace, no matter how it is achieved. do you really believe that Muslims are bred to kill, according to their scriptures? i would be willing to bet NO religion would condone killing. but many interpret it just that way.

As for the second part of your question Dmek, ultimatly any religion that is not of God and the bible is a religion onto themselves not just Islam, they are all heading to the same place Hell, and there is where it gets touchy, everyone believes they have the truth, but there is only one truth and one salvation plan.


Hebrews, chapter 2-"3": How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;


So as for muslims in particular? They need salvation just as much as any other false religion, Are they the most hostile religion? Yes, not all are as hostile or extreme as what we see on the news everyday, but you sure don't see other muslims coming out against these extremists keeping their house in order per say.

As for killing, there is a difference between killing and murdering, God has given authority to the gov't or whomever presides over the people to justifidly take life, as the bible says,


Romans, chapter 13-"1": Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

"2": Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

"3": For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

"4": For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The sword in the bible is used for killing so there are certain situations where killing is acceptable to God, for instance the military as you fight for your country in a war, or the execution of a criminal, but the gov't has a tremendous resposibility not to misuse that authority, the gov't in no wise can break gods laws, example: they have the right to take life but if that right is used to murder than they will come under Gods wrath no different than any one of us.