McNabb says black QBs criticized more

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I think McNabb is 100% right in what he says. Black QB have to be great, not good to keep a job in the NFL.. History in the past 10 years reinforces that. For example, how many black backups are out there? Proven losers or relative no names like Doug Johnson, Kerry Collins, Sage Rosenfels, Trent Edwards, etc. and washed up QB like Vinny Testaverde & Brad Johnson are collecting checks.. Doug Flutie got a 20 year career out of being a novelty act.

It took Byron Leftwich, a career 59% passer with a nearly 2-1 career TD/INT ratio nearly a month to get a contract after he was released. Aaron Brooks, nowhere near a great QB, really not even good but more accomplished than any of the aforementioned white QB (except Brad Johnson) is still out of the NFL. History is littered with good/decent black QB who never got another shot or didn't get the opportunity to hang on as a backup for 10+ years.. For every Anthony Wright, there are 3 Shaun Kings.

There are more black starting QB than there were years ago no doubt, but is Aaron Brooks any worse than 50% of the backups in the league today? That’s where McNabb’s point is being missed by the masses.. Black QB don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to teams taking a chance on them, even as a backup… If Dennis Green took a chance on Randall Cunningham who was out of the league because nobody would bring him into even a training camp, he went on to win 15 games and be within a missed FG of going to the Super Bowl.. Those are the examples McNabb is talking about. JP Losman is in his 4th year of accomplishing nothing in Buffalo and yet there is minmal question or outcry for his job. Steve McNair was a MVP runner up, perennial pro bow QB, Super Bowl QB, had a bad year and fans & media were calling for Billy Volek..

That's a point that Doug Williams brought up many years ago. About how the perception was that a Black QB had to be good enough to start, and if not he wasn't worth keeping around. Because you can't really teach athleticism, and that's really all the Black QB could offer. They didn't, the perception was, have the mental acuity to be a backup and learn how to be an NFL QB despite less than stellar athletic abilities. Which is, of course, ridiculous and the past two decades I think have shown that this "problem" is going away.

Yes McNabb is criticized (and praised). But any sensible criticism has nothing to do with his race. It's about his injury history, his diminishing skills (as a result of all these injuries), the team's inability to give him the best tools to succeed, and the fact that he's stuck playing amidst a cesspool of Eagles fans.

Now if Eagles fans are racist, that's a damn shame. But don't project that sentiment around the league.

[jsarno]

I think a point a lot of people are missing is that the majority of black QB's are scrambling qb's. The Majority of white qb's are pocket passers.
I don't think this issues is as much about race as it is style of qb.
Vick was a god in Atlanta and would have had that job for life, and he did nothing to deserve it. Young in Tennessee has been given the key to the freakin city and everyone thinks he's an amazing QB (minus me...I feel he's the most overrated QB in the league). Look at Culpepper...he came off a possible career ending injury, and the Dolphins STILL gave him the full reins and a nice contract even though they had no clue of what they were getting. Leftwich was one of the few pocket passers, and what did he do for jacksonville? Nothing! He never threw for more than 15 td's in a season. Who did they replace him with? A black scrambling QB.
McNabb talked about Manning and Brady...well, in case he forgot, Manning was scrutinized for not being able to win the big game until he won the big game. Brady has won 3...why would he be scrutinized? McNabb needs to shut up and win the big one, then he can ride their bus. Instead is a consistant loser when the playoffs come around!
Pennington was freakin cheered for getting hurt in NY. Eli has been called "sheli". In our own backyard, Brunell took us to the playoffs, and his job was still in jeopardy. Plummer was on his way to the playoffs then got benched for a rookie.
This is not about race people, this is about "what have you done for me lately." White QB's have been scrutinized just as much as black qb's (in recent years, not back in the day). McNabb is living in the past, and it's wrong to assume it's race. It's obviously not when Campbell and Young come out and say what they did. I respect both for saying it, and I appreciate Campbell's stand.
About Favre...he plays in an area that idolizes their players...they have nothing else. He won a super bowl for them, and that's all they needed for life...that signed his ticket.
PS- Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson won super bowls, and where are they now? They did what McNabb can't do, and they lost their jobs shortly after winning. Don't tell me white qb's are not held to the same standards. They are. It's all about what have you done for me lately.

[jsarno]

McNabb is trying to turn the table on this so people don't see just how bad he is in the playoffs. I do not blame the Phily fans for getting restless...they are a perennial playoff team, yet they have not won anything. How is this? Who is the first to be blamed in these cases? The QB!
McNabb has been the reason they lost in 5 playoff games. That's 5 years worth of losses. That's HUGE!
2000- 181 yards, 1td, 1int
2001- 171 yards, 1td, 1int
2002- 243 yards, 0td, 1int
2003- 100 yards, 0td, 3int
2004- 357 yards, 3td, 3int*
*- in the super bowl, those 3int's killed the eagles...he played fairly well otherwise.
In 5 games, he threw for 1052 yards, 5tds, and 9int's. This is a guy that averages a little under 2 td's a game, and a little over .5 int's a game, yet in the playoff losses he averages only 1 td but almost 2 int's a game?
I ask you, what QB in the league has performed this poorly in the playoffs and not gotten any scrutiny? If you ask me, he's lucky to not get more flack from people. He's the true choke artist. Most people don't even get that many chances to prove themselves...he's had ample opportunity and blew it. Again, this is not about race, it's about him, and he's trying to deflect it to be about race.
You want to talk about race in sports, then let's talk about how many white people there are playing basketball.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by jsarno

McNabb is trying to turn the table on this so people don't see just how bad he is in the playoffs. I do not blame the Phily fans for getting restless...they are a perennial playoff team, yet they have not won anything. How is this? Who is the first to be blamed in these cases? The QB!
McNabb has been the reason they lost in 5 playoff games. That's 5 years worth of losses. That's HUGE!
2000- 181 yards, 1td, 1int
2001- 171 yards, 1td, 1int
2002- 243 yards, 0td, 1int
2003- 100 yards, 0td, 3int
2004- 357 yards, 3td, 3int*
*- in the super bowl, those 3int's killed the eagles...he played fairly well otherwise.
In 5 games, he threw for 1052 yards, 5tds, and 9int's. This is a guy that averages a little under 2 td's a game, and a little over .5 int's a game, yet in the playoff losses he averages only 1 td but almost 2 int's a game?
I ask you, what QB in the league has performed this poorly in the playoffs and not gotten any scrutiny? If you ask me, he's lucky to not get more flack from people. He's the true choke artist. Most people don't even get that many chances to prove themselves...he's had ample opportunity and blew it. Again, this is not about race, it's about him, and he's trying to deflect it to be about race.
You want to talk about race in sports, then let's talk about how many white people there are playing basketball.

You're analyzing it backwards. I loosely agree with what you are saying, but the idea is not to take all the playoff loses and try to blame McNabb for them. It's to try to find out who was most responsible for those losses.

My answer: The Bucs, Panthers, and Patriots. McNabb didn't beat those teams because his team was worse than those teams. His numbers in those games reflect the dominances of those defenses. Course that wasn't just McNabb's line against them. That was every QB they played in those seasons.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You're analyzing it backwards. I loosely agree with what you are saying, but the idea is not to take all the playoff loses and try to blame McNabb for them. It's to try to find out who was most responsible for those losses.

My answer: The Bucs, Panthers, and Patriots. McNabb didn't beat those teams because his team was worse than those teams. His numbers in those games reflect the dominances of those defenses. Course that wasn't just McNabb's line against them. That was every QB they played in those seasons.

Well, we obviously agree on many points, but I feel the need to say this, big players come up big in big games. McNabb get's lost along the way. The man is an OUTSTANDING Qb in the regular season, but when he's cold (for whatever reason) then the Eagles lose.
He needs to be good enough to overcome a good D, otherwise they lose the game.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jsarno

McNabb is trying to turn the table on this so people don't see just how bad he is in the playoffs. I do not blame the Phily fans for getting restless...they are a perennial playoff team, yet they have not won anything. How is this? Who is the first to be blamed in these cases? The QB!
McNabb has been the reason they lost in 5 playoff games. That's 5 years worth of losses. That's HUGE!
2000- 181 yards, 1td, 1int
2001- 171 yards, 1td, 1int
2002- 243 yards, 0td, 1int
2003- 100 yards, 0td, 3int
2004- 357 yards, 3td, 3int*
*- in the super bowl, those 3int's killed the eagles...he played fairly well otherwise.
In 5 games, he threw for 1052 yards, 5tds, and 9int's. This is a guy that averages a little under 2 td's a game, and a little over .5 int's a game, yet in the playoff losses he averages only 1 td but almost 2 int's a game?
I ask you, what QB in the league has performed this poorly in the playoffs and not gotten any scrutiny? If you ask me, he's lucky to not get more flack from people. He's the true choke artist. Most people don't even get that many chances to prove themselves...he's had ample opportunity and blew it. Again, this is not about race, it's about him, and he's trying to deflect it to be about race.
You want to talk about race in sports, then let's talk about how many white people there are playing basketball.

The reason why more white people are not in basketball is because they are not the best players in that sport. Plain and simple.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The reason why more white people are not in basketball is because they are not the best players in that sport. Plain and simple.

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

[WillH]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

Well when you have your own NBA or college basketball team you can scout and pick up all these alleged white phenoms that are being over looked by the experts.....Then you'll show them!!!!

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

So the prejudice against black QBs is a fiction, but the prejudice against white BBllers is real?

I happen to think that both prejudices are real. I don't know how pervasive such thoughts are, especially at the pro level, but I do believe they exist.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

So the prejudice against black QBs is a fiction, but the prejudice against white BBllers is real?

Sort of. I used to be true, but it is no longer. However, the prejudice against a SCRAMBLING qb is still real. It has nothing to do with race, but everyone sees that a true scrambling QB has never won the super bowl. Problem is, every scrambling Qb happens to be black. Teams feel pocket passers = super bowls. I tend to agree. A black pocket passer is hard to find.
ps- Campbell is a pocket passer.

I happen to think that both prejudices are real. I don't know how pervasive such thoughts are, especially at the pro level, but I do believe they exist.

Even Young and Campbell made comments that they are not. It used to be there, but it is no longer there. It's all about who the teams feel will win. If they felt that Warren Moon could come out of retirement to win a super bowl, they'd pay him to do it. It's that simple.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

I hope you're not serious. So you think the NBA and NFL teams are discriminating against white players? Black is the new white? What you're implying is as absurd as McNabb's comments. It's unfortunate that you both believe in the legitimacy of what you believe to be true.

I'm afraid your buddy had deficiencies that perhaps you and the people around him didn't see or were not willing to see. There are so many factor in assessing a player it's not even funny. LaVar is a perfect example.

I'll reiterate what I've said on this top in the past...In sports it's all about winning and no team, no f'ing team, is willing to sacrifice W's for some petty racist shit. Period!

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

I hope you're not serious. So you think the NBA and NFL teams are discriminating against white players? Black is the new white? What you're implying is as absurd as McNabb's comments. It's unfortunate that you both believe in the legitimacy of what you believe to be true.

When did I say that NFL teams are discriminating against white people? I didn't say that, nor did I insinuate that. Curious as to how you even came to that conclusion.

I'm afraid your buddy had deficiencies that perhaps you and the people around him didn't see or were not willing to see. There are so many factor in assessing a player it's not even funny. LaVar is a perfect example.

Well, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. He was ranked #1 in the STATE. Pretty darn convincing if you ask me. Maybe I wasn't specific enough cause you used Lavar as an example, but he was ranked #1 in the state as a basketball player. For as much as people would like to think that racism doesn't exist in basketball, it's by far the most racist sport in the world. Look at the guy here that said that black basketball players are just better than white players...and oddly enough no one cared to say anything about it. It's simply not true. White people don't get the opportunity that black people do to play basketball, and it starts in high school. You can't tell me that there aren't white people out there that can play. How did the 86 celtics win it all with Bird, McHale, Ainge, and Walton (all white)?

I'll reiterate what I've said on this top in the past...In sports it's all about winning and no team, no f'ing team, is willing to sacrifice W's for some petty racist shit. Period!

I 100% agree with you.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

LOL! I'm not trying to be a racist cause I'm not at all. But I think it's true. I'm sure there were some white guys that didn't get a chance because of their color. Was your friend one of them? I dont' know but I'm sure if he was that good someone would have found him. But if more white guys could jump higher and run faster then there would be more white guys in the NBA. Don't you think?

Look at schools like Indiana when Knight was coaching. They always have a good number of white players. They are always known as smart, fundamentally sound players. But most of them never make it to the NBA because of their athletic skill level.

You NEVER EVER see white corners or RB's in the NFL. Wr's here and there but not many. Why? Are blacks better athelets? I think there is a little truth to it.

I'll never ever forget when Larry Bird was being interviewed with I think Magic Johnson and someone else. He said he use to love it when white guys in the NBA would try and guard him. Cause he knew he would rip the guy apart. Now why did he say this?? BTW... Larry Bird was one of my favorite NBA players of all time.

I'm black and I love to ski. How come you don't see any black skiers or hockey players? Many white people think it's because we are from a warm climate ( Africa ) and can't take the cold. I mean it's stupid but there is probably some truth to it. I hate the cold but I love to ski!

[irish]

If he had lead Philly to a Super Bowl championship or 2 he'd be the toast of the town. Unfortunately he hasnt and the brutal Philly fans are letting him know it. This all seems like sour grapes to me.

[JWsleep]

Here's what I'm pissed about--why no black kickers!

J/K, obviously. I agree that there is inherent racism throughout the US, though much of it below the surface. But it's getting better. These things take time.

As for Donovan's stats, etc.--my guess is that many teams in many cities would be happy to get McNabb even now, much less a few years ago. He's kicked our asses enough times for me to appreciate that he's a high quality NFL QB. He hasn't won a SB, so that's gonna dog him for his career unless he manages to do so.

Race is a tough thing, especially here in the US with our long history of race problems. So I think he was correct in his comment. But he no doubt didn't help his standing by making the comment, especially given the timing. But I respect McNabb, and so I give him the benefit of the doubt here. ANY comment about race is going to cause a firestorm. But not speaking up about it is probably worse--getting these things out in the open and debated will help, even if it takes a long time.