AP Article: Redskins offense back to square one!

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

The difference is those teams pass and sprinkle in run plays. They DO NOT try and come out and play smashmouth all the time.

Patriots Pass Attempts/game: 34
Patriots Rush Attempts/game: 32

Colts Pass Attempts/game: 33
Colts Rush Attempts/game: 31

You're saying that an almost perfect 50/50 balance of Pass/Rush attempts means that these teams are "sprinkling in run plays"?

Seriously, NFL.com Statistics. Give it a try some time - it makes for far more intelligent arguments.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by saden1

What? They do go hand in hand. You run the ball to setup your passing game...that's Football 101...it has been, it is, and will forever be.

No, it was football 101.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

Many of the other responses have all provided great stats to back up the fact that the NFL is not just a "passing league".
Unfortunately we have a young QB and WRs who don't scare anyone, even if you spread the field out and come out in passing formations the defense can still cheat towards the run because our passing game isn't a threat. If you try to "air it out" unsuccessfully you will have a lot of "three and outs", you are not taking any time off the clock, or giving the defense any rest.
The NFL isn't just about being a "passing league", it is about scheming towards a team's strenghs and covering up the personnel weaknesses. The majority of NFL coaches are smart guys and work very hard, but at the NFL level it's mostly about talent and right now on offense our talent level is not very good. Our OL is injured and weak on the right side, our WRs are not very good, Portis is not looking good, Betts has not proven he is a "number one" back, Campbell is still basically a rookie and Cooley, while a top ten TE, isn't physically gifted like a Kellen Winslow, Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez, he cannot carry us.
So what should Joe Gibbs do, try to come out and throw the ball 70% of the time...OR...attempt to establish the run, work in some play action, manage the game, and rely on our solid defense and special teams to keep us in the game. I don't think it's a matter of the game passing Gibbs by, we just don't have the talent on offense.
You mentioned the Browns skill players not being better than ours in another post. I would take Braylon Edwards over any of our WRs, Jurevicous is a solid # 2, and Winslow is more of a physical threat than Cooley. How about some of the other skill players from teams you mentioned; Giants - Burress, Shockey, Toomer, Detroit - Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Seattle - WRs aren't scary, but Hasselbeck is a very solid veteran QB, GB - Driver & Jennings are getting it done and Favre is having his "last hurrah", Dallas - hurts to say it but their skill guys are better.
We just have to be realistic, we were 5-11 last year for a reason. To go to 8-8 or 9-7, while disappointing if we don't make the playoffs is a good improvement. If we make some solid personnel decisions in the off-season we are defintely going in the right direction.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Many of the other responses have all provided great stats to back up the fact that the NFL is not just a "passing league".
Unfortunately we have a young QB and WRs who don't scare anyone, even if you spread the field out and come out in passing formations the defense can still cheat towards the run because our passing game isn't a threat. If you try to "air it out" unsuccessfully you will have a lot of "three and outs", you are not taking any time off the clock, or giving the defense any rest.
The NFL isn't just about being a "passing league", it is about scheming towards a team's strenghs and covering up the personnel weaknesses. The majority of NFL coaches are smart guys and work very hard, but at the NFL level it's mostly about talent and right now on offense our talent level is not very good. Our OL is injured and weak on the right side, our WRs are not very good, Portis is not looking good, Betts has not proven he is a "number one" back, Campbell is still basically a rookie and Cooley, while a top ten TE, isn't physically gifted like a Kellen Winslow, Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez, he cannot carry us.
So what should Joe Gibbs do, try to come out and throw the ball 70% of the time...OR...attempt to establish the run, work in some play action, manage the game, and rely on our solid defense and special teams to keep us in the game. I don't think it's a matter of the game passing Gibbs by, we just don't have the talent on offense.
You mentioned the Browns skill players not being better than ours in another post. I would take Braylon Edwards over any of our WRs, Jurevicous is a solid # 2, and Winslow is more of a physical threat than Cooley. How about some of the other skill players from teams you mentioned; Giants - Burress, Shockey, Toomer, Detroit - Calvin Johnson, Roy Williams, Seattle - WRs aren't scary, but Hasselbeck is a very solid veteran QB, GB - Driver & Jennings are getting it done and Favre is having his "last hurrah", Dallas - hurts to say it but their skill guys are better.
We just have to be realistic, we were 5-11 last year for a reason. To go to 8-8 or 9-7, while disappointing if we don't make the playoffs is a good improvement. If we make some solid personnel decisions in the off-season we are defintely going in the right direction.

You bring up some very good points here. Sometimes the truth hurts. Perhaps our guys just aren't as good as advertised. But I need to see our skill guys get more chances. Lloyd needs to get more balls thrown to him. I know he is probably a bum. But at least give him 4-5 balls a game downfield, instead of the screens.

I didn't see us try and get Santana the ball at all downfield against NE. When Dallas played NE Witten was killing Harrison. Is Witten that much better than Cooley? Yet I didn't see any effort to get Cooley the ball downfield until it was too late.

I think the #1 priority for this team next off season is a big 6'4 red zone threat that draws coverage to his side of the field like Randy Moss does. We just can't score points. Perhaps someone like that can open up everything for the other players.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I think the #1 priority for this team next off season is a big 6'4 red zone threat that draws coverage to his side of the field like Randy Moss does. We just can't score points. Perhaps someone like that can open up everything for the other players.

Agreed 100%.
We need physical threats at WR, not just a couple of guys who only run fast, because you can always play with help over the top. If the speed-burners don't run particularly good routes, go over the middle well, or have great hands they are fairly easy to defend.

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

"If you can run it, draw people to the line of scrimmage, then you can pass it. They go hand in hand."

No, they don't go hand in hand. Not anymore Joe. This is the 80's early 90 mentality. Gibbs is never ever going to adjust to today's NFL. When is this guy ever going to realize that it is a passing league now? The rules beg you to pass it. DB's can't even breathe on the WR's yet we don't have one single wr with a passing TD. You should be able to pass it with the guys you brought in here w/out having to run it all the time. Same old crap.

Just about every team INCLUDING the Colts last year won the championship because of a strong running game. If you're looking for a passing league, watch the AFL.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

Just about every team INCLUDING the Colts last year won the championship because of a strong running game. If you're looking for a passing league, watch the AFL.

Do you know one of the main reasons the Colts run it so well? Why they have such a high average yards per carry? It's because they never ever ever have 8 guys lurking around the line like we do. Defenses that play the Colts know better. They know they will get burned deep and they respect the passing game. Who respects our passing game when we are always throwing wr screens all day long and don't push the ball in the 15-25 yard range?

When have you ever seen CP run the ball when JC is in shotgun on 1st down with the field spread out? It's little things like this that will help a slasher like CP operate in space. I'm not saying play run and shoot but at least try and run more out of passing formations on 1st and 2nd down.

Portis averaged over 5 yards a carry before he got here. His average has dipped down alot since he has come to Wash. Sorry but I put some of that on the coaches for not trying to spead the field more and let the guy try and run in space. Instead we try and play smash mouth with a 205 back. It makes no sense. CP is not a in between the tackles type of runner. He needs to be on the perimeter as Sanders likes to say. Why aren't we running more stretch plays?

Gibbs and Bugel's mentality is they don't care how many guys are in the box. They ignore it. They did it last year and to a point they are doing it this year. Establish the run at all costs and it's just killing us.

If we ever come out and try and pass first to set up the run I might cum in might pants.

[bridaman51]

Hey does anyone have an image of the T-Shirts Cartwright came up with fromt he article? I would love to get my hands on one. If not I would like to see it. I love the quote.

[skinsfan242]

I like it a whole lot. But honestly I thought that is what they were doing and they were just getting stopped.

I hope this means Run alot, spread out and run, go over the top and hit Cooley in the middle. Run again and again and again and when they stuff it hit them over the top and then run again.

[SmootSmack]

Everyone wants to talk about the great explosive offenses Al Saunders had in Kansas City and how he made it work with guys like Marc Boeritger and Al Saunders. But what was the real key to that offense? A strong O-Line and running game. What's one of the most underappreciated reason the Colts passing game is so good? They have a strong running game and Manning is brilliant on play action.

It may be true that passing is more prevalent than it was say 10 years ago, but you can't ignore the value of a good running attack.

[redskins5044]

this offense we play is to predictable. same offense we had before we had saunders. we never spread teams out with 4 wrs. i know our o-line is hurt and struggling but you need to give teams some different looks. going into every week i keep hoping the offenese shows up and spread teams out and show some of that saunders play book. if we can beat the jets we will be 5-3 and most of us would have taken that before the season started. i just hope we can get the offense on track and not lose anybody else to injury

[saden1]

Benefits of running the ball:
1. Wears down the opponent's defense. If a defense is tired you can run and pass on them all day.
2. Play action, play action, play action! If you can't run the ball whose going to fall for you worthless play action fakes?


p.s. Someone has been playing Madden way too much!

[He Hate Me]

I've got an idea! Let the offensive coordinator who has called plays in the past 15 years make the calls and call the game! Gibbs, should stay on as the spiritual advisor and let the expensive coordinators call the games! Enough is enough! Snyder has to wonder why his payroll is so high on the coaching end if these guys aren't even calling the game.

[redsk1]

The article makes me feel a little bit better. At least we know we're pathetic at the moment. There's still time to improve and who knows.

How much better would our D be if we actually had an above average offense? Alot better.

[Green1]

Gibbs has to admit he made a mistake by bringing in AL. Gibbs is a great coach and offensive mind. Let AL go prove himself somewhere else. If you have the 11th ranked offense in the league why would you change. Mistake. 2004 was only the second year of Gibbs return which means the team was just getting comfortable with the offense. Colts have had the same offense for years that why it is so good. Ok Manning has something to do with that but Gibbs offense is QB friendly. 3 different QBs 3 rings. SAME OFFENSE.