Roy Williams (WR) for a 2nd Round Pick?

[NYCskinfan82]

RW 4 a 2nd round pick next year no brainer, nobody is denying we need help at DL, OL & CB but if we keep our picks this year & get RW 4 a 2nd next year come on we would have 2 do it.

[SBXVII]

All the news is that Snyder is not making any big splashes this year. Wouldn't it be funny if he came up with Williams for next yrs second and Ocho some how with one of this yrs picks? I know you all will say can't possibly do it with the money cap, but Snyder is the capologist.

I doubt we get both but Williams and perhaps Hall? I know they also are thinking about another LB to help out until McIntosh gets completly healthy.

I only mentioned Ocho because for some reason his thread keeps making it to the top.lol. Someone mentioned that we will have him signed by Tues. while we are still trying to get below the 118,000 cap. lol. I wouldn't doubt Snyder to get it done if he wants it but I have a hard time believing by Tues.

I'm betting some trade could be worked out by draft day. Something to entice the Bengals to want to give up Ocho and still allow them to have a replacement for him, but unless some one has inside info about it getting done prior to Tues. we are still struggling to get low. lol.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

All the news is that Snyder is not making any big splashes this year. Wouldn't it be funny if he came up with Williams for next yrs second and Ocho some how with one of this yrs picks? I know you all will say can't possibly do it with the money cap, but Snyder is the capologist.

I doubt we get both but Williams and perhaps Hall? I know they also are thinking about another LB to help out until McIntosh gets completly healthy.

I only mentioned Ocho because for some reason his thread keeps making it to the top.lol. Someone mentioned that we will have him signed by Tues. while we are still trying to get below the 118,000 cap. lol. I wouldn't doubt Snyder to get it done if he wants it but I have a hard time believing by Tues.

I'm betting some trade could be worked out by draft day. Something to entice the Bengals to want to give up Ocho and still allow them to have a replacement for him, but unless some one has inside info about it getting done prior to Tues. we are still struggling to get low. lol.

That's more fantasy thought than anything. Moss would then be the highest paid 3rd WR in the league, and Randle El would be the highest paid 4th WR ever, and Lloyd would be the highest paid 5th or 6th or 7th WR ever. Not gonna happen. We can't afford to drop any of them, so if we do get 1 WR, it will be just that...1 WR.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by jsarno

That's more fantasy thought than anything. Moss would then be the highest paid 3rd WR in the league, and Randle El would be the highest paid 4th WR ever, and Lloyd would be the highest paid 5th or 6th or 7th WR ever. Not gonna happen. We can't afford to drop any of them, so if we do get 1 WR, it will be just that...1 WR.

You are 100% correct. All I was saying is it would be awsome to have two talented tall WR. Lloyd should be gone this yr anyway. He has not produced and I doubt he will with Zorn cause he has burned his bridge I believe. Thrash I used to love but he has simply fallen off the chart. Yes he is good on special teams but he used to be good as a 3rd down specialist. He was awsome in his first stint with the skins. His second stint has been nothing special. If I'm not mistaken McCardell was thinking retirment prior to us signing him plus he has 15 yrs on him. Thrash has 10 yrs on him.

I went to the Redskins web site and was shocked at how many WR we have. I immagine or I hope some would work out for us.
Randel El
Espy
Caldwell
Harris
Moss
Thrash
McCardell
Lloyd
Mix at 6-5 235
McMullen at 6-4 215
Mann at 6-1 190
Toler at 6-2 185

I could see us letting Thrash, Lloyd, McCardell go if the last 4 work out well for us. I also hope Espy comes back with a vengence.

[QBall]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

You are 100% correct. All I was saying is it would be awsome to have two talented tall WR. Lloyd should be gone this yr anyway. He has not produced and I doubt he will with Zorn cause he has burned his bridge I believe. Thrash I used to love but he has simply fallen off the chart. Yes he is good on special teams but he used to be good as a 3rd down specialist. He was awsome in his first stint with the skins. His second stint has been nothing special. If I'm not mistaken McCardell was thinking retirment prior to us signing him plus he has 15 yrs on him. Thrash has 10 yrs on him.

I went to the Redskins web site and was shocked at how many WR we have. I immagine or I hope some would work out for us.
Randel El
Espy
Caldwell
Harris
Moss
Thrash
McCardell
Lloyd
Mix at 6-5 235
McMullen at 6-4 215
Mann at 6-1 190
Toler at 6-2 185

I could see us letting Thrash, Lloyd, McCardell go if the last 4 work out well for us. I also hope Espy comes back with a vengence.

Long list of no-names but we have 3 or 4 solids there.

[skinsfanzg18]

his contract expires next year. so his stint with whatever team he will be on next year, will be like donte stallworth on the eagles 2 years ago.

i say keep the picks. the only wr to trade for is OCHO CINCO!!

[Schneed10]

Randle El - good
Espy - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
Caldwell - fine as a 3rd or 4th
Harris - bum
Moss - good
Thrash - borderline bum as a WR, special teamer only
McCardell - too old
Lloyd - bum
Mix at 6-5 235 - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
McMullen at 6-4 215 - bum
Mann at 6-1 190 - bum
Toler at 6-2 185 - bum

Too many bums, and only 2 good ones. And the two who are good are small. The long list does nothing for me. We shouldn't care how many guys we have, we should care who we have who's capable of making serious plays.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Randle El - good
Espy - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
Caldwell - fine as a 3rd or 4th
Harris - bum
Moss - good
Thrash - borderline bum as a WR, special teamer only
McCardell - too old
Lloyd - bum
Mix at 6-5 235 - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
McMullen at 6-4 215 - bum
Mann at 6-1 190 - bum
Toler at 6-2 185 - bum

Too many bums, and only 2 good ones. And the two who are good are small. The long list does nothing for me. We shouldn't care how many guys
we have, we should care who we have who's capable of making serious plays.

I agree but Mix has only 1 yr under his belt and could turn out to be special in the right scheme. Same with McMullen and Mann...both drafted by other teams and possibly they are no good but maybe in the right scheme they flourish. Lloyd is a bum, Toler = ?, Harris never showed much, Thrash has not produced as a WR as he did in his first stint, McCardell is old, Espy I liked alot but will he play or be injured every yr?, Moss and El are great #2/#3 but sub par #1/#2. We need a legitimate #1 WR who is tall and big to compliment our speed WR and possession WR.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I agree but Mix has only 1 yr under his belt and could turn out to be special in the right scheme. Same with McMullen and Mann...both drafted by other teams and possibly they are no good but maybe in the right scheme they flourish. Lloyd is a bum, Toler = ?, Harris never showed much, Thrash has not produced as a WR as he did in his first stint, McCardell is old, Espy I liked alot but will he play or be injured every yr?, Moss and El are great #2/#3 but sub par #1/#2. We need a legitimate #1 WR who is tall and big to compliment our speed WR and possession WR.

I agree with the majority of this assessment but disagree with the bolded part. For those of you with "tall receiver" fascination one name: Steve Smith.

In the receiver dept. what we need is a receiver, regardless of height, who gets open in the endzone inside the redzone and takes some of the coverage away from Cooley. Height is helpful but not determinative. It certainly comes in handy on corner fades and the occasional jump ball, but, other than that, it is short area separation, not height, that is most important.

For whatever reason, neither Moss nor ARE seem particularly suited for the redzone (not sure what their stats there are - but would not be surprised to see the majority of their TD's come from 20 yards or beyond). But M. Harrison, who is not gigantic by any means seems to do well in the short field, ditto Steve Smith.

Not sure where we find the red-zone Cooley compliment that we need. But whereever we look, we should not say that only WR's 6' 2" and over need apply.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I agree with the majority of this assessment but disagree with the bolded part. For those of you with "tall receiver" fascination one name: Steve Smith.

In the receiver dept. what we need is a receiver, regardless of height, who gets open in the endzone inside the redzone and takes some of the coverage away from Cooley. Height is helpful but not determinative. It certainly comes in handy on corner fades and the occasional jump ball, but, other than that, it is short area separation, not height, that is most important.

For whatever reason, neither Moss nor ARE seem particularly suited for the redzone (not sure what their stats there are - but would not be surprised to see the majority of their TD's come from 20 yards or beyond). But M. Harrison, who is not gigantic by any means seems to do well in the short field, ditto Steve Smith.

Not sure where we find the red-zone Cooley compliment that we need. But whereever we look, we should not say that only WR's 6' 2" and over need apply.

No one is saying a small wide receiver can't succeed. Look at Moss a couple years ago. What people are saying, me included, is that you need a tall compliment to a small speedy WR. You mentioned Steve Smith, so look at these numbers:

2006 Panthers 15th in passing yards...had a 6'4" Keyshawn Johnson that caught 70 balls.
2007 Panthers 29th in passing yards...2nd best receiving threat on the team was TE Jeff King.
It's no coincidence that the Panthers passing game went to pot after losing a large target like Keyshawn. Of course the injured Delhomme hurt too, but Smith had 83 catches in 06, and 87 in 07.

You raise a good point about Harrison, however, Peyton could have a crew of midgets and he would make it work. Harrison and Wayne are some of the best route runners in the league.

Still point remains, we're not saying to never pick up small wr's again, but we need one due to the fact that we have small wr's now. They compliment each other. Will it be the end of the world if we don't get one? No, but it will free up Moss and Randle El to do other routes and be more effective for their sizes and our team concept.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Height is helpful but not determinative. It certainly comes in handy on corner fades and the occasional jump ball, but, other than that, it is short area separation, not height, that is most important.

For whatever reason, neither Moss nor ARE seem particularly suited for the redzone (not sure what their stats there are - but would not be surprised to see the majority of their TD's come from 20 yards or beyond). But M. Harrison, who is not gigantic by any means seems to do well in the short field, ditto Steve Smith.

Can't coach height & hops. It's a match-up problem that many teams can't answer if they don't have elite CBs. When you are inside the red-zone everything shrinks, but if you have a big target that can physically outmatch the CBs to the edge, the CBs have to play more outside to defend the fade or out. This which means the zones inside get just a bit bigger to squeeze that stop or slant in there. In addition to being able to throw the fade or stop.

I've looked at some of the red-zone stats for Harrison & Holt (in response to another thread a couple of months ago) their production is good. However they are both Pro Bowl caliber receivers and great route runners, Moss and ARE are not.

IMO we need to see if Mix can develop, even if it's just in the red-zone. From what I read a while back on Mix the folks in NY didn't want to see him go but he only plays X, same as Plaxico so he was pretty much stuck there with no chance to get on the field.

I would love to see Roy Williams here for a 2nd rounder, but it won't happen. Another team will come up with a sweeter deal than we can, and I wouldn't give up a #1 for him.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Randle El - good
Espy - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
Caldwell - fine as a 3rd or 4th
Harris - bum
Moss - good
Thrash - borderline bum as a WR, special teamer only
McCardell - too old
Lloyd - bum
Mix at 6-5 235 - bum with A LITTLE long-term promise
McMullen at 6-4 215 - bum
Mann at 6-1 190 - bum
Toler at 6-2 185 - bum

Too many bums, and only 2 good ones. And the two who are good are small. The long list does nothing for me. We shouldn't care how many guys we have, we should care who we have who's capable of making serious plays.

Damn..that's a lot of bums!

[Schneed10]

We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays

That's the typical knee jerk reaction around here. Some bloger writes that Chad Johnson and Roy Williams are on the block and people freak out. Nevermind that their two head coaches said that neither player isn't going anywhere.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

We can probably put this to bed now. Marinelli has stated that the Lions will not trade Roy Williams. Makes sense, why the hell would they? He and CJ can make for the best 1-2 punch in the league.

Lesson learned by the Warpath, just because a blog says it could happen doesn't mean it's legitimate.

Marinelli: Williams stays

Yeah. Just gaging the reaction on this board, Williams for a 2nd rounder was just not going to happen. First, as Schneed said, Williams and CJ make a potent receiver combo. Why dump him if they can afford him under the cap? Second. Even if he was trade bait, it is clear that the bidding was going to require a first rounder or multiple picks either this year or next to outbid some of the other teams listed.

While I would have been okay with a 2nd rounder, I would have opposed getting into a bidding war for him. Rather have the picks and take some shots. In fact, I hope we can drop a slot or two in various rounds and pick up some extra picks either this year or next.