How long do you keep Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly if they don't produce?

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wow. Would you have cut Steve Smith after he got into a fight in the film room during his 2nd season? If so you would have cut one of the best WR in the league whose production hadn't yet emerged. Some of you guys really need to eat some reality soup and get a clue. It takes some guys time to develop and yes, to learn how to be a professional! My God, give people a chance to grow into their careers before talking about cutting them in the preseason. SMH.

Very good post, your points are a good response to people that are obviously clueless about the development of a young player. Everyone wants results right away. It's funny how folks in here say the line "we must build through the draft" when you pull their strings, yet they get impatient when building through the draft takes longer than a season.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Very good post, your points are a good response to people that are obviously clueless about the development of a young player. Everyone wants results right away. It's funny how folks in here say the line "we must build through the draft" when you pull their strings, yet they get impatient when building through the draft takes longer than a season.

You pointed out the ultimate irony! For all of the whining about wanting to build thru the draft how many would be willing to live with 4-12, 6-10, 8-8 while the draft classes come into their own to become a consistent 10-6, 12-4 type team? The FO 'built thru the draft' last year and got ripped all year for the draft picks not becoming Hall of Famers out of the gate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Vinny guy, but it's frustrating to hear the constant whining and complaining regardless of which direction we go. So ridiculous.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

You pointed out the ultimate irony! For all of the whining about wanting to build thru the draft how many would be willing to live with 4-12, 6-10, 8-8 while the draft classes come into their own to become a consistent 10-6, 12-4 type team? The FO 'built thru the draft' last year and got ripped all year for the draft picks not becoming Hall of Famers out of the gate. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Vinny guy, but it's frustrating to hear the constant whining and complaining regardless of which direction we go. So ridiculous.

And then when we get involved in free agency, we don't get involved enough. We signed Haynesworth and Dockery? Well, what about Bodden, Canty, Brown, Willis, Bernard, Lechler, Asomugha, why didn't we get all those guys too????

But that's what fans are I guess....crazy, ridiculous, fanatics. The key is for the Front Office not to act like fans and we'll be fine

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wow. Would you have cut Steve Smith after he got into a fight in the film room during his 2nd season? If so you would have cut one of the best WR in the league whose production hadn't yet emerged. Some of you guys really need to eat some reality soup and get a clue. It takes some guys time to develop and yes, to learn how to be a professional! My God, give people a chance to grow into their careers before talking about cutting them in the preseason. SMH.

Well, DT was never an established college talent, which is where he gets a different standard for us than Kelly, who had two great years at Oklahoma after contributing significantly as a freshman. Thomas never once entered a season as Michigan State's go to receiver. So there was no book on how he could deal with adversity -- he had never faced any.

So unlike Kelly, Thomas has to prove to US that he belongs in the NFL. His rookie year was more evidence to the contrary that he's likely not an NFL skilled receiver. Kelly on the other hand has to prove he can stay healthy. If he can do that for us, we appear more than willing to wait for his development.

It's conceivable that DT is simply not the player we thought we drafted AND that Malcolm Kelly's injury history is too much to overcome. That's a very real possibility for us. Fred Davis, though, seems to be well on his way to NFL competency with no real red flags.

I'm optimistic but realistic on Kelly. On Thomas, I'm just realistic.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, DT was never an established college talent, which is where he gets a different standard for us than Kelly, who had two great years at Oklahoma after contributing significantly as a freshman. Thomas never once entered a season as Michigan State's go to receiver. So there was no book on how he could deal with adversity -- he had never faced any.

So unlike Kelly, Thomas has to prove to US that he belongs in the NFL. His rookie year was more evidence to the contrary that he's likely not an NFL skilled receiver. Kelly on the other hand has to prove he can stay healthy. If he can do that for us, we appear more than willing to wait for his development.

It's conceivable that DT is simply not the player we thought we drafted AND that Malcolm Kelly's injury history is too much to overcome. That's a very real possibility for us. Fred Davis, though, seems to be well on his way to NFL competency with no real red flags.

I'm optimistic but realistic on Kelly. On Thomas, I'm just realistic.

Don't forget that, for all of the reasons you mentioned, we should expect Thomas to have growing pains. For all of the reasons you mentioned, it would be foolish to expect Thomas to be a tiger out of the gate.

He came out of college early. His peers are still going to frat parties every weekend. He has growing up to do.

I'm not saying he will be a star. But if he is to become a star, we likely should expect the situation with him to be as it has been.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Don't forget that, for all of the reasons you mentioned, we should expect Thomas to have growing pains. For all of the reasons you mentioned, it would be foolish to expect Thomas to be a tiger out of the gate.

He came out of college early. His peers are still going to frat parties every weekend. He has growing up to do.

I'm not saying he will be a star. But if he is to become a star, we likely should expect the situation with him to be as it has been.

Understood, of course, and I certainly can't dispute anything you've said.

But I do think that makes significant progress this year all the more critical than say Malcolm Kelly. Devin Thomas smelled like a bust pre-draft 2008. He didn't "smell" right. Last season, he "looked" like a guy who simply was overwhelmed by the game.

This year, he's going to play. And the thread title has to do with how long we keep him. So if he looks like a bust, smells like a bust, and this year, he plays like a bust...I think the answer is, we don't keep him any longer.

If he looks and smells like a bust, but shows a few signs of development this season...well, now it's a lot more complicated. Because he is still likely a bust...but you don't want to cut him loose only to have him breakout with a different team. So with even minor improvement, he gets a third year.

Malcolm Kelly is different. His first year is totally written off to injury, IMO. Gone. So if he has a meh year, but stays healthy, he gets a third season. If he's hamstrung by injuries again this year which limit his production, I'd still give him a third year, but I'd definately lower the ultimate expectation.

My general philosophy is that it's better to cut a player one year early than one year too late, but being incorrect on a young player can have huge consequences, so you've just got to be right as soon as possible. Given the rookie years, this duo has not earned the benefit of the doubt. Somebody needs to bring the results right now.

[KLHJ2]

Where in the hell is all of this negativity toward Thomas comming from? Talking about he has a bad attitude and needs to grow up etc... The media threw you a little piece of dirt early last season and you guys have ran half way across the planet with it. He started comming around mid season last year. In fact this offseason he is training with Santana Moss in Miami (sorry no link).

I guess he needs to mature more and stop spending time with fans too.

Devin Thomas Makes Friends

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Angry

Where in the hell is all of this negativity toward Thomas comming from? Talking about he has a bad attitude and needs to grow up etc... The media threw you a little piece of dirt early last season and you guys have ran half way across the planet with it. He started comming around mid season last year. In fact this offseason he is training with Santana Moss in Miami (sorry no link).

I guess he needs to mature more and stop spending time with fans too.

Devin Thomas Makes Friends

That's a really nice gesture. It says nothing about his work ethic, but I'm glad he's a good dude.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by GMScud

That's a really nice gesture. It says nothing about his work ethic, but I'm glad he's a good dude.

My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Angry

My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.

Don't get angry Angry, I saw it too. It's all good.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Angry

My work ethic argument was based on the fact that he is working out with Moss in the offseason. I can remember where I read it and now I cannot find a link. Now some jackass is going to come along and question the validity of that statement. I just know it.

If you remember a couple of weeks ago they had an article about Malcolm Kelly already spending time working out at Redskin Park. Well, around the same time frame they had the article about Thomas and Moss working out in Miami. Now it is nowhere to be found. I have a very good memory and the fact that I cannot find it is pissing me off.

Calm down. SmootSmack mentioned his Miami workouts earlier in this thread, and a friend of mine who trains at Redskins Park confirmed as much with me yesterday. When I mentioned work ethic I was more referring to his 2008 season. I'm sure he was told that better preparation is a condition of employment moving forward.

[Eknox]

I say we at least give them another year, we did use 2nd round picks on these guy's...

[Ijaeger]

I expect Malcom to do great things for us and I can see Devin making some absolutely jaw dropping catches, and I expect for them to start showing flashes this year. However, expectations are like wishes and we all know what the outcome is when you wish in one hand and sh*t in the other. They are both capable of being good ball players and they most likely will be. The ultimate question is whether or not it will be in Washington, because after this season- no producee-no playee and back to trading away draft picks for over the hill players who will never play the same for us as their former team. (even though we seem to be shying away from that "been there, tried that" strategy) But I put nothing past the FO...nothing. Hopefully they will just work out for us.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year.

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

we didnt just get 3 guys in free agency - we got 3 STARTERS, and two of them are pro-bowlers. We also have resigned or tendered several players who were key contributors, if not starters, on our roster last year. You only look at the guys we brought in from outside and Hall - but you ignore that we resigned/tendered Albright, Doughty, Fincher, Montgommery, and Golston. We still may bring back Daniels and Washington. Free agency is not over.

As it stands right now, our 2009 starting roster is already signifcantly upgraded on both sides of the ball. And we still have the draft which includes the 13th overall pick in the draft. If we stay at 13, we've got another instant starter and possibly a pro-bowler. If we trade down, well use the pick on at least two players who have starting potential in 2009. Do we still have needs? yes. Will we still have needs even after the draft? Yes. But this is the same situation with every team in football. We are a better team now than we were last year and weve narrowed the gap between the talent on our team and the 2008 NFC-East champion Giants. I'm very happy about where our team is now in relation to where it was a year ago and anyone who thinks differently is going to have a hard time proving their case.

You say we have no draft picks, but we have 4 and will probably get a 7th round compensatory pick for losing Brunell last year.

I doubt that. We didn't draft him.