Somebody please try to convince me that the FO has a plan.

[GTripp0012]

Well, if we accidentally won a Super Bowl one year (lets say 2010) with the FO making a bunch of bad long term decisions, I'm not sure how much credit they would really be deserving of.

People know that I'm not hesitant to extend the congratulatory stick to organizations that make good long term moves, even ones that I spend the better part of four months wishing the very worst on (Eagles). I also feel that I'm not likely to confuse unexpected success for a good team building philosophy.

The silver lining is that none of the Skins relative successes have been undeserved in the last eight to ten years or so. The playoff win was the result of shrewd FA moves in 2005 that any other team could have made, but didn't.

[53Fan]

I think the plan is to get younger and stay competitive at the same time, with the means that are available at the present time. That appears to be what they're doing. Maybe that is oversimplifying it, but that appears to be their plan.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

I think the plan is to get younger and stay competitive at the same time, with the means that are available at the present time. That appears to be what they're doing. Maybe that is oversimplifying it, but that appears to be their plan.

Right, but then you have to adjust your draft strategy to support that, which means "Mel Kiper likes his upside" or "we just took BPA" is no longer a reasonable defense for the Devin Thomas pick.

A more reasonable defense would be "we need our third receiver this year to come from the draft. we scoured through the prospects for the most productive college receivers, and we decided that Jordy Nelson/Limas Sweed/DeSean Jackson gives us the best chance to fill that need cheaply, and we like what he adds to our special teams as well".

And I understand that Sweed (who I admit, topped my WR draft board last year, with Donnie Avery at No. 2) struggled every bit as much as Thomas last year. But you ask me who will have the better career of the two, I guarentee that it will be Sweed.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Right, but then you have to adjust your draft strategy to support that, which means "Mel Kiper likes his upside" or "we just took BPA" is no longer a reasonable defense for the Devin Thomas pick.

A more reasonable defense would be "we need our third receiver this year to come from the draft. we scoured through the prospects for the most productive college receivers, and we decided that Jordy Nelson/Limas Sweed/DeSean Jackson gives us the best chance to fill that need cheaply, and we like what he adds to our special teams as well".

And I understand that Sweed (who I admit, topped my WR draft board last year, with Donnie Avery at No. 2) struggled every bit as much as Thomas last year. But you ask me who will have the better career of the two, I guarentee that it will be Sweed.

By means that are available at the time I'm refering to draft, FA's, or trade. Picking Thomas did make us younger and I believe we stayed competitive despite the last half of the season. Was it a good pick? I think that is yet to be seen, but we did need help at the wideout position. With our past attempts at finding a receiver in free agency, taking a young talented one in the draft does'nt seem like such a bad idea. Taking Thomas instead of Sweed does'nt vary from the plan. I consider that more of an evaluation issue.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

By means that are available at the time I'm refering to draft, FA's, or trade. Picking Thomas did make us younger and I believe we stayed competitive despite the last half of the season. Was it a good pick? I think that is yet to be seen, but we did need help at the wideout position. With our past attempts at finding a receiver in free agency, taking a young talented one in the draft does'nt seem like such a bad idea. Taking Thomas instead of Sweed does'nt vary from the plan. I consider that more of an evaluation issue.

Well, it's evaluation, but it's also negligence.

It's not something that you can do if you are trying to use the draft to supplement an aging team. You don't have the luxury to limit your search to WRs 6'3" or taller if you are serious about taking BPA. That's only the case if you are serious about taking people who look like football players, but you aren't actually concerned with the result.

If you are going with a load up on picks and build exclusively through the draft strategy, drafting a specific body type becomes far more defensible, even if he busts. You simply just don't give him another contract. If the number of picks you have is equal to or less than the number of needs you have to fill, you can't miss. Period.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

How can a team accidentally win a superbowl?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

How can a team accidentally win a superbowl?

Hypothetically:

Let's say the 2009 team goes to the playoffs on a first round bye, wins a playoff game, and gets eliminated in the NFC Championship game. In the offseason, a new CBA is agreed to by the players union and the league owners. Campbell gets the franchise tag, but Carlos Rogers signs with the Falcons for 10 million a year. In the preseason, Clinton Portis tears two ligaments in his knee and misses the year. Chris Samuels isn't healthy when the year starts. Stephon Heyer is the de facto starter at LT. Devin Thomas doesn't even make the team. We picked up the options on Carter and Randle El, who are both in decline at this point. Jansen is cut, but there's no one on the line to replace him but Heyer. Because the team finished in the top four teams the year before, we can only sign one player (to replace Rogers) and the market doesn't offer anything we like anyway. Point is: clearly, this is a worse team than the 2009 version (hypotetically).

Only, the team wins 10 games anyway, and the NFC East. Jason Campbell makes the pro-bowl, and Ladell Betts has an improbable 1,200 yd season at age 31 (averging only 3.9 YPC though). The defense gives up a ton of points, but also happened to lead the league in turnovers forced. The Redskins are only +21 in pt. differential, but win the division anyway, thanks to crappy play from Eli Manning and Donovan McNabb, and a total defensive collapse in Dallas.

The team isn't expected to make a big splash in the playoffs, but wins a hard fought game against the upstart 11-win Lions during WC Weekend, and the next week, faces No. 1 seed Green Bay. Green Bay won 14 games in 2010, and is the media darling, but the Redskins win a low scoring game thanks to a complete meltdown by Aaron Rodgers, 4 INTs and a FL. The Championship game is played at FedEx field because the 2nd seed Falcons lost a nailbiter to the 9 win WC 49ers after Mark Sanchez (1:1 INT-TD rate in 2010) gets a game clinching INT dropped by Carlos Rogers. The 49ers really have no business even being in the playoffs, but thanks to back to back road wins, are Washington's opponent in the 2010 NFC Championship game. Washington wins a poorly played ball game 20-11.

Then in SB XLV, Jason Campbell has a banner day, and Norv Turner loses for the first time in his career against a former employer (yes, he's now 8-0 against the Raiders and 2-1 against the Skins). The Redskins win SB 45. And yet, are in much worse shape going forward then they currently appear to be.

That's what I mean by accidentally winning a SB. A non-super bowl champion regresses in skill, but wins a championship the next year anyway.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Hypothetically:

Let's say the 2009 team goes to the playoffs on a first round bye, wins a playoff game, and gets eliminated in the NFC Championship game. In the offseason, a new CBA is agreed to by the players union and the league owners. Campbell gets the franchise tag, but Carlos Rogers signs with the Falcons for 10 million a year. In the preseason, Clinton Portis tears two ligaments in his knee and misses the year. Chris Samuels isn't healthy when the year starts. Stephon Heyer is the de facto starter at LT. Devin Thomas doesn't even make the team. We picked up the options on Carter and Randle El, who are both in decline at this point. Jansen is cut, but there's no one on the line to replace him but Heyer. Because the team finished in the top four teams the year before, we can only sign one player (to replace Rogers) and the market doesn't offer anything we like anyway. Point is: clearly, this is a worse team than the 2009 version (hypotetically).

Only, the team wins 10 games anyway, and the NFC East. Jason Campbell makes the pro-bowl, and Ladell Betts has an improbable 1,200 yd season at age 31 (averging only 3.9 YPC though). The defense gives up a ton of points, but also happened to lead the league in turnovers forced. The Redskins are only +21 in pt. differential, but win the division anyway, thanks to crappy play from Eli Manning and Donovan McNabb, and a total defensive collapse in Dallas.

The team isn't expected to make a big splash in the playoffs, but wins a hard fought game against the upstart 11-win Lions during WC Weekend, and the next week, faces No. 1 seed Green Bay. Green Bay won 14 games in 2010, and is the media darling, but the Redskins win a low scoring game thanks to a complete meltdown by Aaron Rodgers, 4 INTs and a FL. The Championship game is played at FedEx field because the 2nd seed Falcons lost a nailbiter to the 9 win WC 49ers after Mark Sanchez (1:1 INT-TD rate in 2010) gets a game clinching INT dropped by Carlos Rogers. The 49ers really have no business even being in the playoffs, but thanks to back to back road wins, are Washington's opponent in the 2010 NFC Championship game. Washington wins a poorly played ball game 20-11.

Then in SB XLV, Jason Campbell has a banner day, and Norv Turner loses for the first time in his career against a former employer (yes, he's now 8-0 against the Raiders and 2-1 against the Skins). The Redskins win SB 45. And yet, are in much worse shape going forward then they currently appear to be.

That's what I mean by accidentally winning a SB. A non-super bowl champion regresses in skill, but wins a championship the next year anyway.

Wow, the short bus parked for a long time at the Imagination Station for that one!!!

If that happened, we'd all be as giddy as pigs in sh*t so even if we 'accidentally' won a Super Bowl (you forgot to mention that the Chargers were only in the Super Bowl because the Patriots plane was diverted to the island from Lost so they were substituted as the AFC runner up) people would be shouting Hallelujah all year long.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

How can a team accidentally win a superbowl?

See Cowboys under Barry Switzer.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

See Cowboys under Barry Switzer.

Nah, that was a team that won without a head coach.

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

I am one frustrated Redskins fan. Here's what I see.

We've gone back to the same bad habits that have cost us draft picks and cap space and that I believe will surely doom us to continued mediocrity. The Jason Taylor fiasco, another of our customary panic moves, cost us dearly in draft picks. Albert Haynesworth, as great as he is, represents a whopping chunk of our cap space which seems to have precluded our making other FA moves.

Meanwhile, we have holes to fill - big holes. We need a RT, a SLB, a RDE, OL backups, a Kicker, a Punter, a PR, and maybe more. Right now, it looks like we might bring back Daniels and Washington. That's nice, but, at this point in their careers they're only stop-gap solutions.

Even with Haynesworth, this doesn't look to me like a team that is poised to make a playoff run in the tough NFC East. Sure, I wanted Haynesworth, but what do I know? I'm just a dumb fan who loves to watch great football players do their thing in B&G. I don't need to have a plan. But shouldn't the FO have one? If they do, I just can't see it.

If you can detect a plan in all this, clue me in. Also, what do you think the plan should be?

The move for Jason Taylor was heralded at the time. That was a serious need after that season ending injury on the first day of camp.

Besides, there was no way of knowing that JT was going to be injured for that long, he had a long track record of consecutive starts going when he came to Washington.

[freddyg12]

This got a bit interesting, though I have to admit when I first saw the title I was like 'here we go again...'

Snyder clearly has a "business plan," and maybe that's what frustrates us the most, we see that there hasn't been a true effort made to build the team patiently w/depth.

I'm not saying that he deliberately sets out to raise expectations & then field a mediocre team w/little to no depth. But the PR/marketing biz was how he got rich to start with, and his financial success w/the Redskins has only reinforced his business acumen.

I'm sure in his mind he believes that the team can be good almost every year. And I'm damn sure that in his mind the Skins have a "plan." We may not like it, but there's a plan fo sho.

[The Goat]

I think the plan exists and sort of is a two-phase concept. We saw phase one within about 48 hrs of FA. Al and Hall were preconceived and then Dock just fell into our laps like a gift from the Almighty... like Hall did last season. I bet that if Dock wasn't cut we'd have signed a different OL guy rather quickly, maybe the kid Willis. As it turned out I think we did the right thing.

Phase two requires patience. We don't have oodles of cash to spend and frankly there isn't a plethora of coveted talent on the market anyway. We'll get Daniels or another serviceable LDE, however I'd prefer big D back. I feel very confident we sign at least one more OL guy in FA; however, it won't surprise me if we wait till after the draft as it's predictable more quality vets will be cut due to their salary and the simple fact teams will have drafted franchise OTs. Where I see uncertainty is at OLB. Contrary to some of the talk I don't think there's a ton of depth and talent at the position in this year's draft. That means we have less to choose from, it also means other teams have less to choose from so they're less likely to part w/ expensive veterans we could sign and get a few productive seasons from. For this reason I think Vinny's smart move is to take an OLB w/ our first pick. Maybe a tweener OLB/DE as GTripp has mentioned.

As to the long-term... pfff, there's no plan. We've got an unproven HC and a QB yet to establish his franchise status. I think JC makes big progress via Zorn's tutelage this season, which obviously helps the offense. But the question mark(s) at WR are undeniable and w/o serious improvement from that group we won't be a contender for anything. Success allows for a plan. Continued struggles probably engender another changeover at HC/QB. As the Zen master says...

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think the plan exists and sort of is a two-phase concept. We saw phase one within about 48 hrs of FA. Al and Hall were preconceived and then Dock just fell into our laps like a gift from the Almighty... like Hall did last season. I bet that if Dock wasn't cut we'd have signed a different OL guy rather quickly, maybe the kid Willis. As it turned out I think we did the right thing.

Phase two requires patience. We don't have oodles of cash to spend and frankly there isn't a plethora of coveted talent on the market anyway. We'll get Daniels or another serviceable LDE, however I'd prefer big D back. I feel very confident we sign at least one more OL guy in FA; however, it won't surprise me if we wait till after the draft as it's predictable more quality vets will be cut due to their salary and the simple fact teams will have drafted franchise OTs. Where I see uncertainty is at OLB. Contrary to some of the talk I don't think there's a ton of depth and talent at the position in this year's draft. That means we have less to choose from, it also means other teams have less to choose from so they're less likely to part w/ expensive veterans we could sign and get a few productive seasons from. For this reason I think Vinny's smart move is to take an OLB w/ our first pick. Maybe a tweener OLB/DE as GTripp has mentioned.

As to the long-term... pfff, there's no plan. We've got an unproven HC and a QB yet to establish his franchise status. I think JC makes big progress via Zorn's tutelage this season, which obviously helps the offense. But the question mark(s) at WR are undeniable and w/o serious improvement from that group we won't be a contender for anything. Success allows for a plan. Continued struggles probably engender another changeover at HC/QB. As the Zen master says...

All good plans Goat! I hope your right about JC

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I think the plan exists and sort of is a two-phase concept. We saw phase one within about 48 hrs of FA. Al and Hall were preconceived and then Dock just fell into our laps like a gift from the Almighty... like Hall did last season. I bet that if Dock wasn't cut we'd have signed a different OL guy rather quickly, maybe the kid Willis. As it turned out I think we did the right thing.

Phase two requires patience. We don't have oodles of cash to spend and frankly there isn't a plethora of coveted talent on the market anyway. We'll get Daniels or another serviceable LDE, however I'd prefer big D back. I feel very confident we sign at least one more OL guy in FA; however, it won't surprise me if we wait till after the draft as it's predictable more quality vets will be cut due to their salary and the simple fact teams will have drafted franchise OTs. Where I see uncertainty is at OLB. Contrary to some of the talk I don't think there's a ton of depth and talent at the position in this year's draft. That means we have less to choose from, it also means other teams have less to choose from so they're less likely to part w/ expensive veterans we could sign and get a few productive seasons from. For this reason I think Vinny's smart move is to take an OLB w/ our first pick. Maybe a tweener OLB/DE as GTripp has mentioned.

As to the long-term... pfff, there's no plan. We've got an unproven HC and a QB yet to establish his franchise status. I think JC makes big progress via Zorn's tutelage this season, which obviously helps the offense. But the question mark(s) at WR are undeniable and w/o serious improvement from that group we won't be a contender for anything. Success allows for a plan. Continued struggles probably engender another changeover at HC/QB. As the Zen master says...

Excellent post! Everything you wrote makes sense to me.

I only disagree with you about the ability of JC to lead this team. On a physical level I have problems with his slow release, his inaccuracy, and the flat trajectory on his deep passes. On a mental level, I don't think that he usually makes decisions quickly enough. I also question his standing as an team leader. I don't see him transmitting his passion for winning to his teammates. Lastly, he just doesn't make enough big plays. Sometimes a QB needs to make a play at a critical time of the game whether or not defenders are draped all over him.

That said, I'd like JC to prove me and the rest of his doubters wrong. That would be wonderful! Nevertheless, until JC steps up to the next level or the Redskins find the right QB to lead them they're not going to be a dominant team.