Should Ramsey Start Against Chicago?

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

Other teams are putting 8 or 9 guys in the box, just not on EVERY down.

Do you believe Brunell is effective? Or is it just that Coles, Garder, the line, Cooley, Portis and everyone else on offense is ineffective? You've said that the line hasn't done its job, Portis deserves to be benched, and the wideouts aren't getting open. BUT, Brunell isn't getting any of the blame.

Some other questions:

#1. Do you really think Portis should be benched?

#2. Do you really think our wideouts aren't getting open?

#3. Do you think our offensive line and blocking backs were much better last year?

#4. Do you think Brunell has been throwing well?

#5. Do you think Brunell is scaring D-backs with his ability to throw deep?

#6. Do you think a QB is capable of making a good offense look bad or vice-versa (i.e. Mike Vick and Chad Pennington)?

1.Yes, We scrapped our runningbacks for Portis. The real deal is he's doubting himself and the defense's can see it. Most backs get stronger and stronger in the late quarters but Portis is running and falling down with hardly any energy at all.
2.Yes. Look at the passes that were caught and you see 2 defenders on almost every play. Where are the receivers who have one on one coverage on them?
3.No. This line is much better. Injuries to Jansen and Jones has hurt us tremdously. Portis doesn't read the defense well and is thinking too much rather than reacting decisively.
4.Yes. Brunell has had 2 INTs in 5 games. His numbers against Dallas at 325 yds proves he can do it. He is a leader and takes responsibility for every loss we've had this year, when we all know he's not the reason completely.
5.Of course not. Put Portis isn't scaring anybody either. I'm starting to believe the Denver system made him what he was a back.
6.A QB makes an offense look bad when he is unable to run an effecient offense the opportunity comes to make a big play. Brunell made the big play in th first half. Vick and Pennington are QB with a future and younger legs. A veteran QB must be given maximum protection and that's not happening.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by illdefined

all bigger backs than Portis, with lead blockers and proven olines with schemes that aren't new to them.

Correct he if I'm wrong. But Portis's size has never been his downfall. What has been his strengths has been his speed and power. Portis is as big as Tiki, Priest or Deshaun Foster. I watch other backs in the league right now like Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber and Holmes and I just shake my head with disbelief that this offensive line could be the main reason for our failures when all of the backs I mentioned have runners who cut back a lot to get the yards they need.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Correct he if I'm wrong. But Portis's size has never been his downfall. What has been his strengths has been his speed and power. Portis is as big as Tiki, Priest or Deshaun Foster. I watch other backs in the league right now like Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber and Holmes and I just shake my head with disbelief that this offensive line could be the main reason for our failures when all of the backs I mentioned have runners who cut back a lot to get the yards they need.

What do all of those backs have? A quarterback who is a threat to the defense. If I was a def. coord. I would put 8 in the box until Brunell beat me deep once, then leave 8 in the box until he proves he can do it again. It's not the line, it's not the system, it's not the scheme, it's the personnel..

In your previous post you said you would bench Portis, for who and for what? What would benching your best offensive player prove? The whole 'system back' thing is a joke. If he was running against linemen and backers instead of linemen, backers and blitzing safeties all game then maybe he could put up some numbers.. Since the Tampa game, what's been the method to stop the Redskins offense? Blitz almost every play. Why? Because we haven't shown an ability to beat it. How many times did Ed Reed come off the corner and stuff the play? I can think of at least 4 off the top of my head, TD included. You have to be able to beat the blitz in the NFL or else you won't move the ball.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Correct he if I'm wrong. But Portis's size has never been his downfall. What has been his strengths has been his speed and power. Portis is as big as Tiki, Priest or Deshaun Foster. I watch other backs in the league right now like Curtis Martin, Tiki Barber and Holmes and I just shake my head with disbelief that this offensive line could be the main reason for our failures when all of the backs I mentioned have runners who cut back a lot to get the yards they need.

man, how LONG have those guys been in their systems? more importantly, how long have their OLINES been in those systems??

Gibbs doesn't WANT his backs cutting back, thats not how he gameplans and im sure Portis has been told not to. this is a huge philosophy change for Portis and a WHOLE new deal for the Oline.

Gibbs had Cooley blocking for Portis in the I formation. thats a change for Portis's style right there. but thats a new position for Cooley too. its gonna take time for the team and the coach to figure it all out, but already things are started to move albeit slowly.

[Gmanc711]

I'm with Paintrain. The reason I think we bring Ramsey in, is to set up Portis. Nobody thinks that Mark Brunell can pass on them, and he is doing a hell of a job of proving the right. Brunell hasent been able to pass on anyone at all this year, except for Dallas for a half quarter. Now Ramsey is going to make stupid mistakes if he plays, I know he will, but he will also make some huge plays that will make teams respect his ability. From there, then we can start giving the ball to Portis and he can start doing what hes supposed to do. Right now no one thinks we can pass the ball more than 7 yards, so they are all playing the run.

[CrazyCanuck]

I voted "B: Brunell hasn't done much, but enough to remain the starter."

This coming from a guy who loves Ramsey, and thinks Brunell has pretty much sucked thus far. But I'll leave it up to Gibbs to decide.

The fact is there are a lot of things wrong with the offense and I can't tell enough from TV to determine if they're all Brunell's fault. Maybe the WRs really aren't getting open. The OL sure hasn't done much, and subsequently nor has the running game.

What I do see is a guy who doesn't look comfortable, holds the ball too long, doesn't step up in the pocket well, has lousy footwork (as mentioned by Theismann), makes bad decisions, and is never a threat to bust out for a scramble gain.

But Gibbs knows a lot more about football than I do, so if he thinks Brunell should remain the starter then so do I. Plus I think this team is ideally best off with a successful Brunell, and Ramsey learning from the sidelines.

But if Coach decides it's time for PR, then I'll happily change my vote to "D". :thumb:

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

What do all of those backs have? A quarterback who is a threat to the defense. If I was a def. coord. I would put 8 in the box until Brunell beat me deep once, then leave 8 in the box until he proves he can do it again. It's not the line, it's not the system, it's not the scheme, it's the personnel..

oh yeah, NOT TO MENTION w/o an air attack every defense is singling Portis OUT while everyone is learning this Gibbs system. result? fumbles and everything thats been happening.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by SUNRA

Look at the passes that were caught and you see 2 defenders on almost every play. Where are the receivers who have one on one coverage on them?

How can you say that the opposing defenses are stacking 8 or 9 guys in the box all the time [see your previous post], but putting double coverage on our wideouts?

With 8 or nine defenders in the box and Gibbs running 3 WR routes, how can you honestly say our recievers are being double-teamed? By my count, that would mean the opposing defenses are fielding 14 or 15 guys.

[SmootSmack]

After tonight's game I'm tempted to call for wholesale changes. Bench Brunell, Coles, and Gardner. Start Ramsey, Jacobs, McCants. We need a spark somewhere.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Ramseyfan

How can you say that the opposing defenses are stacking 8 or 9 guys in the box all the time [see your previous post], but putting double coverage on our wideouts?

i WISH our receivers were dangerous enough to warrant double teams. thats the whole point. the way the receivers and Brunell are playing means they dont have to, so instead they effectively triple team Portis. 8 men in the box.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by smootsmack

After tonight's game I'm tempted to call for wholesale changes. Bench Brunell, Coles, and Gardner. Start Ramsey, Jacobs, McCants. We need a spark somewhere.

man, at this point, i would NOT be opposed to that. let Coles recover fully if thats whats been stopping him from outrunning DBs, and let McCants or even Thrash not drop those clutch ones Gardner is infamous for.

noticed you wouldn't bench Portis. smart.

[wbecker999]

The best quarterback on our team is Hassleback
Talk about spark he has it.
If ramsey goes in he'll get sacked all day long
he has no mobility
and no clock in his head

[Luxorreb]

Bring In Ramsey!!!
Cannon Man Pat!

[That Guy]

here's my thoughts (as if anyone cares )

when we got behind by 7 points, my heart sunk, cause i knew that brunell's love of the 4 yard pass and throwing the ball away (as per instructions), such a small lead would be impossible to overcome... he threw high, to the right, etc all over the field... he's had 5 weeks to show improvement and he hasn't, SO...

give ramsey a week and see how he fares (the ravens would be a horrible game to start him in, brunell's also lit them up in the past, but not tonight)... with brunell in i feel like we can't get back from being behind, PR has big play ability... he makes mistakes, but i have hope till the last second that he might be able to make SOMETHING happen... and i think he has a much better connection with coles (brunell seems to prefer gardner or whoever is 4-7 yards out)...

ramsey could suck too, but i think i rather take me chances with him than with these short passes... brunell seems to ONLY throw to safety vavles and short of first downs (luckily coles can run decently...)

i just hate watching crappy horizontal passing, especially when its not working... we'd have to be lucky to hit 8-8 right now, if ramsey's the future, now's a good time to lay the groundwork...

[NY_Skinsfan]

Originally Posted by That Guy

give ramsey a week and see how he fares (the ravens would be a horrible game to start him in, brunell's also lit them up in the past, but not tonight)... with brunell in i feel like we can't get back from being behind, PR has big play ability... he makes mistakes, but i have hope till the last second that he might be able to make SOMETHING happen...

i agree...Ramsey makes mistakes but he also moves the ball down the field...When Brunell makes mistakes the opposing defense walks into the endzone with a fumble recovery.