Is it finally time to rebuild??

[MTK]

Originally Posted by drew54

Could have resigned Trent Green, but instead gave up 3 draft picks to the Vikings for a 2 year rental of Brad Johnson.

Could have just re-signed BJ too, but Snyder was in love with Jeff George and we know how well that went.

[Bill B]

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Bill B

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

This reminded me again of how much the Bellicheck Pats teams are like Gibbs' old teams. Bellicheck might never admit that, but he was w/the g-men at the time & observed a lot of great skins teams. Just like the plan b free agents, the pats will bring in some old guys to supplement the core of their roster. The difference between the old plan b skins/today's Pats v. the skins of Snyder; those guys did not form the core of the roster like FAs have for us in the last 10 years.

It's not that FA in itself is a flawed approach, it's the strategy & emphasis on it that has killed us.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

This reminded me again of how much the Bellicheck Pats teams are like Gibbs' old teams. Bellicheck might never admit that, but he was w/the g-men at the time & observed a lot of great skins teams. Just like the plan b free agents, the pats will bring in some old guys to supplement the core of their roster. The difference between the old plan b skins/today's Pats v. the skins of Snyder; those guys did not form the core of the roster like FAs have for us in the last 10 years.

It's not that FA in itself is a flawed approach, it's the strategy & emphasis on it that has killed us.

I don't know. I think several of the key players on our 91 team, particularly on defense were FAs. It's so tough to compare eras though

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't know. I think several of the key players on our 91 team, particularly on defense were FAs. It's so tough to compare eras though

Sure, Gathers at DT, Fred Stokes at DE, Matt Millen at MLB, Copeland at SS, Wilbur Marshall at OLB, etc. But they were added to a solid core of homegrown vet skins; D. Green, C. Mann, Monte Coleman, K. Gouevia, M. Mayhew, & Pettibon had been there for years.

The parallel to me is that Gibbs could get an old once good/great player like Matt Millen to play a vital role, just the way Bellicheck has w/ old free agents like Junior Seau, Moss, Fred Taylor, etc.

My main point is, if the team is solid & has an established coaching staff & system, vet free agents can come in and play important roles right away. That's where I see the parallel between Gibbs' 1 & Bellicheck.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Bill B

The Skins will likely be the most active team in free agency this off-season. As much as I want to build through the draft we just don't have enough picks to do it all in one off-season or even two.
On the bright side what the Skins have done already is clear a lot of bad contracts off their books this season to make room for a lot of free agent additions next year. I think a new CBA will be reached and when it does the Skins will be in good shape and not be working frantically to re-work a bunch of contracts of their high priced vets and in the process hurt outer years with regards to cap space. I don't see the Skins going strong into the restricted FA pool. If they sign a bunch of mid priced FA's to replenish the roster that is fine by me. I think going after the highest priced guys may be a mistake as we have too many holes to fill.

I think a lot people forgot that one of the reasons the Skins had a lot of success in the previous Gibbs years was the team had an owner willing to shovel big bucks in areas like the plan B free agency pool - we simply stockpiled players on our roster as JKC was willing to fork over the money to keep that part of the roster ready to step in as injuries occured. Now Synder obviously overspent on a lot of FA's who were on the tail end of their career and also went along with a FO that traded a lot of their picks for restricted FA's, but I think he and the current team he has in place are not going to have this be their main method of building moving forward. I think we go after a lot of UFA's and also try and find as many gems like Banks as we can. At the same time we keep most of our draft picks and start the process of adding youth via the draft. In summary the silver lining of this season folks over others is we have cleared the books and are in much better shape from a cap perspective compared to other years. Not too mention I have heard that the upcoming 2011 Class is likely to be pretty deep compared to others.

You're probably right cause Shanahan doesn't come here for a rebuilding job. So they're going to go out and overpay some guys and it won't work cause it never works and we're right back to square one. I just wish they'd realize that there is no such thing as a quick fix.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You're probably right cause Shanahan doesn't come here for a rebuilding job. So they're going to go out and overpay some guys and it won't work cause it never works and we're right back to square one. I just wish they'd realize that there is no such thing as a quick fix.

We've had 1 offseason w/Allen & Shan, do you think they "overpaid" anybody? They didn't sign AH, that was on Vinny's watch. They just brought in reasonable contracts this year & a no. of undrafted players or guys recently cut by other teams, e.g. Torain, Armstrong, Lichtensteiger.

While I expect that we'll be busy in free agency due to the needs of the team & the no. of good players availalbe, I expect Allen to keep the signing bonuses in check, that's what he's known for. For the really good free agents I expect deals like McNabb's; potential big $ but an easy out for the team if it doesn't go well.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

We've had 1 offseason w/Allen & Shan, do you think they "overpaid" anybody? They didn't sign AH, that was on Vinny's watch. They just brought in reasonable contracts this year & a no. of undrafted players or guys recently cut by other teams, e.g. Torain, Armstrong, Lichtensteiger.

While I expect that we'll be busy in free agency due to the needs of the team & the no. of good players availalbe, I expect Allen to keep the signing bonuses in check, that's what he's known for. For the really good free agents I expect deals like McNabb's; potential big $ but an easy out for the team if it doesn't go well.

well they over paid in the form of draft picks for both mcnabb and brown.... and they bought in bums like galloway, larry johnson, roydell williams, a scrub nose tackle, carriker, hicks and licktenstiger (sp). so as far as i'm concerned shanahan and allen have done a terrible job and right now i have no faith in either of them.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

well they over paid in the form of draft picks for both mcnabb and brown.... and they bought in bums like galloway, larry johnson, roydell williams, a scrub nose tackle, carriker, hicks and licktenstiger (sp). so as far as i'm concerned shanahan and allen have done a terrible job and right now i have no faith in either of them.

We gave up one pick for Brown and a pick, not multiple picks for Brown. Give him one more offseason to get fully healthy. Guys like Galliway, LJ, and Roydell were short term relatively cheap solutions while the Torains, Austins, and Kellys of the team develop/get healthy. Carriker is quietly solid, but will probably never be someone who gets respect from fans. He's young though and cost us almost nothing to acquire. kory l is also quite young and cost basically nothing to acquire

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

well they over paid in the form of draft picks for both mcnabb and brown.... and they bought in bums like galloway, larry johnson, roydell williams, a scrub nose tackle, carriker, hicks and licktenstiger (sp). so as far as i'm concerned shanahan and allen have done a terrible job and right now i have no faith in either of them.

Carriker has actually been a nice find. Maybe not dominant but such is the nature of being a 3-4 DE not named Seymour or Smith. Kory L also has been pretty decent and should be a solid starter for the next few years.

I don't think people realize this but building an O-Line is a constant process and in order to feed that process you can't afford to use 1st and 2nd round picks every year to fuel it otherwise you're doing a huge disservice to the rest of your team.

The best lines usually have at most two first day draft picks and then supplement the rest of the line with late round draft picks and free agents. Our inability to find those late round role players has been our Achilles heel, in part because we haven't even tried to draft anyone to begin with.

The only real priority on the line these days is center. Rabach has to go. Why he hasn't been benched is beyond me but his inability to stop himself from getting pushed back has become a huge liability. Look at this key play against the Bucs. Want to know why Torrain had to go east-west instead of north south. Because Rabach was literally pushed into him.


So many of Shanahan's best lineman have been late round picks. Late being 4th round and better. We need to realize that fixing the line isn't going to come from binging in the first and second round on offensive lineman but rather identifying talent later in the draft and creating depth all around. Hopefully we've already started with Cook and Capers.

[MTK]

BA is definitely involved with personnel to a degree.

[SmootSmack]

Bruce Allen was instrumental in bringing Joey Galloway here...make of that what you will

[GTripp0012]

Doing game breakdown now...

I would pay $20 to watch a Rocky McIntosh lowlight reel. He's not bad in the same way that Casey Rabach is bad (the "why are you in the NFL" way). McIntosh LOOKS like a pretty imposing LB before the snap. He's just a dreadful, mistake-prone LB after the snap. A big reason why we have struggled against the run this year.

Not as big of a reason as Kedric Golston being out of position, but still.

[Hog1]

There is....nothing that the coaching staff does not see or know that the fan base....does. THAT is why they are highly paid coaches...Professionals......experts. For many years have they done this type of work.
BUT in the head of a fan....everything is fixable...now...easy....
My wife does the same thing...re-sod the yard, how hard can it be?
Install a pool in the backyard...how hard can it be? Such is the logic of the fan.
Reverse 10 years of mismanagement and bad personnel decisions in a handfull of games...how hard can it be??????

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Hog1

There is....nothing that the coaching staff does not see or know that the fan base....does. THAT is why they are highly paid coaches...Professionals......experts. For many years have they done this type of work.
BUT in the head of a fan....everything is fixable...now...easy....
My wife does the same thing...re-sod the yard, how hard can it be?
Install a pool in the backyard...how hard can it be? Such is the logic of the fan.
Reverse 10 years of mismanagement and bad personnel decisions in a handfull of games...how hard can it be??????

But... we play Madden!!