rebuilding or FA frenzy?

[Redskin Warrior]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What a great sales pitch though

"Hey Santana, we'd love to re-sign you. We think you'd be great for the team...as we attempt to tank the season in order to maybe, possibly get Luck. You down?!"

That is what i was thinking how do u convince a true competitor to drop a TD pass, fumble the ball, miss that block & etc. Their contracts have incentives on them too nice try skinster but it's not happening buddy.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinster

nah, just cause you don't get it, doesn't mean it doesnt make sense. You won't hear me talking about how much we suck as a team, just analyze what we need to upgrade, what individuals are playing as they should, and talk about how im happy to have about the strengths that we have. Always be keeping in mind the future of our team in every post I make.

How many teams can you cite that followed your road to glory? I can maybe think of one, though I doubt they planned it out, and that would be the Colts. For a team to tank a season (ie 0 or 1 wins) the issues have to be so systemic, and ingrained that a team won't go to elite status. It just doesn't work that way. It hasn't and it wouldn't for us. More likely, along the lines of the Broncos that Shanahan took to the SB in back to back years you start with a nucleus ( shanahan went 8-8 his first year) you add quality, depth and team guys, (SB next year) and you build on those qualities every year evaluating your team, and the individuals.
That's how the elite teams have done it. No other way. Tanking sends a simple message, one guy is more special than all of you on the team now. That WILL NOT result in an elite team. And history backs that fact up, nothing backs up tanking. (Except in the VC school of EVPOFO).

[skinster]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

How many teams can you cite that followed your road to glory? I can maybe think of one, though I doubt they planned it out, and that would be the Colts. For a team to tank a season (ie 0 or 1 wins) the issues have to be so systemic, and ingrained that a team won't go to elite status. It just doesn't work that way. It hasn't and it wouldn't for us. More likely, along the lines of the Broncos that Shanahan took to the SB in back to back years you start with a nucleus ( shanahan went 8-8 his first year) you add quality, depth and team guys, (SB next year) and you build on those qualities every year evaluating your team, and the individuals.
That's how the elite teams have done it. No other way. Tanking sends a simple message, one guy is more special than all of you on the team now. That WILL NOT result in an elite team. And history backs that fact up, nothing backs up tanking. (Except in the VC school of EVPOFO).

History backs me up. Elite qbs=elite teams
higher draft picks=better improvement to teams

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by skinster

History backs me up. Elite qbs=elite teams
higher draft picks=better improvement to teams

Originally Posted by GreekSkin

I'll pose the same question I always pose when I hear the asinine idea of tanking a season.

How many teams in the league have found their franchise QB's by picking them 1st overall in the draft?

Let's look at GreekSkin's fine question, albeit reformulated: how many of the last few Super Bowl winners found their QB at #1? Answer: None.

History does not back you up, Skinster, as you claim.

[drew54]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Let's look at GreekSkin's fine question, albeit reformulated: how many of the last few Super Bowl winners found their QB at #1? Answer: None.

History does not back you up, Skinster, as you claim.

Here are some statistics to add to this.

Drafted #1 Superbowl Winners

1970 (Steelers) -- Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech
1983 (Colts) -- John Elway, Stanford *
1989 (Cowboys) -- Troy Aikman, UCLA
1993 (Patriots) -- Drew Bledsoe, Washington State **
1999 (Colts) -- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
2004 (Chargers) -- Eli Manning, Mississippi *

*Drafted #1 and then traded.
** Lost starting job due to injury.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by drew54

Here are some statistics to add to this.

Drafted #1 Superbowl Winners

1970 (Steelers) -- Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech
1983 (Colts) -- John Elway, Stanford *
1989 (Cowboys) -- Troy Aikman, UCLA
1993 (Patriots) -- Drew Bledsoe, Washington State **
1999 (Colts) -- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
2004 (Chargers) -- Eli Manning, Mississippi *

*Drafted #1 and then traded.
** Lost starting job due to injury.

Good job Drew. So about 1.5 years a decade see a #1 QB win a Super Bowl.

QED 8.5 years out of 10 see Super Bowls won by QB's taken later.

History is NOT on the side of the "Suck to get Luck" argument.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by drew54

Here are some statistics to add to this.

Drafted #1 Superbowl Winners

1970 (Steelers) -- Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech
1983 (Colts) -- John Elway, Stanford *
1989 (Cowboys) -- Troy Aikman, UCLA
1993 (Patriots) -- Drew Bledsoe, Washington State **
1999 (Colts) -- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
2004 (Chargers) -- Eli Manning, Mississippi *

*Drafted #1 and then traded.
** Lost starting job due to injury.

Drew Bledsoe should not count. He was not the starter during the SB year and it wasn't until he got hurt that Brady came in and the team started winning. They started the season 0-3 or something like that under Blesdoe and he was not playing well.

[Swarley]

Originally Posted by drew54

Here are some statistics to add to this.

Drafted #1 Superbowl Winners

1970 (Steelers) -- Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech
1983 (Colts) -- John Elway, Stanford *
1989 (Cowboys) -- Troy Aikman, UCLA
1993 (Patriots) -- Drew Bledsoe, Washington State **
1999 (Colts) -- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
2004 (Chargers) -- Eli Manning, Mississippi *

*Drafted #1 and then traded.
** Lost starting job due to injury.

what was it you said about history supporting you skinster???

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by drew54

Here are some statistics to add to this.

Drafted #1 Superbowl Winners

1970 (Steelers) -- Terry Bradshaw, Louisiana Tech
1983 (Colts) -- John Elway, Stanford *
1989 (Cowboys) -- Troy Aikman, UCLA
1993 (Patriots) -- Drew Bledsoe, Washington State **
1999 (Colts) -- Peyton Manning, Tennessee
2004 (Chargers) -- Eli Manning, Mississippi *

*Drafted #1 and then traded.
** Lost starting job due to injury.

I understand what skinster is trying to say, I agree with the broad premise (play youth, gain experience and better draft position for a run later), but I could never root for the Skins to lose or tank the season even it it was in their best interest long term. As others have said, too many variables that could derail the strategy, plus it's just wrong.

That all being said, Luck has the talent to be a multiple Pro Bowl level player who can carry a mediocre team to the playoffs and take a solid team to multiple SBs. That type of QB, that you can identify coming out of the NCAA, only comes along once every 11-13 years or so.

Luck - 2012
Manning - 1999
Elway - 1983
Bradshaw - 1970 (although I give more credit to the Steelers D and running game)
Len Dawson - 1957 (drafted 5th overall)
Otto Graham - 1948 (drafted 4th overall)
Sammy Baugh - 1937 (drafted 6th overall)

Are there other players drafted later who reached this level, absolutely. But Luck is a can't miss franchise QB as long as he doesn't go to a "turrible" and mismanaged team (Cincy/Oakland).

[SmootSmack]

So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?

Lets rate our happyness with our team from 1-10 from year to year. Last place will be a 1. 8-8 IMO is about a 3.5. Any team that is truley competative for a superbowl is at least an 8.

I'm looking at my overall happyness with my team over the next ten years and I want to have the highest average possible. IMO the best way to get the higest average is to get luck.

So I don't want to say that our strategy should be to lose because that is demoralizing to do, but if we do lose and get luck, EVERY redskins fan will have a higher average happyness rating over the next ten years.

So yes I am saying it is in our best interest to get last place this year.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinster

Lets rate our happyness with our team from 1-10 from year to year. Last place will be a 1. 8-8 IMO is about a 3.5. Any team that is truley competative for a superbowl is at least an 8.

I'm looking at my overall happyness with my team over the next ten years and I want to have the highest average possible. IMO the best way to get the higest average is to get luck.

So I don't want to say that our strategy should be to lose because that is demoralizing to do, but if we do lose and get luck, EVERY redskins fan will have a higher average happyness rating over the next ten years.

So yes I am saying it is in our best interest to get last place this year.

The Pursuit of Happyness?

So..you don't want us to lose, yet you want us to finish in last place. Because then maybe we'll get Luck and the next decade will be pure bliss?

[skinster]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

The Pursuit of Happyness?

So..you don't want us to lose, yet you want us to finish in last place. Because then maybe we'll get Luck and the next decade will be pure bliss?

yea. Of course as a redskins fan I want wins. I just think the best way to maximize wins is through a franchise qb, which is hard to come by. I believe luck is that guy. I'll take a bad season for decade of good ones.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by skinster

yea. Of course as a redskins fan I want wins. I just think the best way to maximize wins is through a franchise qb, which is hard to come by. I believe luck is that guy. I'll take a bad season for decade of good ones.

And what do we have to support him?

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So your stance, skinster, is that we should make every attempt to lose as much as possible next year so that we can hopefully get the no. 1 pick and draft Andrew Luck?

Well just for the record so theres no confusion. My stance is I pray to God an AFC team gets the number 1 pick next year. If Vinny/Spurrier and Vinny/Zorn can't get higher then 4 then I have a hard time believing that Shanallen can get to 1.

Also once again keep in mind that Luck could easily return to school in 2012 so having the number 1 pick in 2012 doesn't mean you'll be in any sort of position to select Luck. Though I feel much stronger about Matt Barkley going back then I do Luck.